Admitting Gazan refugees would be proof that Britain has a death wish

[Cantonet]

Camilla Tominey in the Telegraph today.
The sheer level of hatred in this article horrifies me. Am I wrong to feel so shocked by this?

This.
They are not 'the good guys'.

You haven't mentioned the lies that have been officially been debunked about Oct 7th Re: mass grapes and mountains of ded babies "burned in ovens" that Israel still doubles down on now despite proven to be lies. You haven't mentioned the Hannibal Operative in which the IDF killed quite a few Israelis themselves in Oct 7th.

What happened on Oct 7th was abhorrent, no one is denying that. That does not give Israel free reign to ethnically cleanse an entire people by genocide. I don't know how that does not compute in your head.

If a member of your family killed a member of mine, does that give me free reign to kill you, your entire family, your friends, your aquaintences, steal your homes, destroy your entire lives and wipe your entire bloodline and existence from the face of the Earth? And simply turn around and say "well x killed x and these people might kill someone else one day so better we wipe this subhuman scum off the planet now" I think not.

As a n Orthodox Jew I know plenty about Israel & Zionism and were I part of Zionism I'd be accusing you of anti-semetism right now for daring to question me. Because that's how it works.

That is absolutely NOT what I have said or implied or believe. I haven’t said anything remotely like that.

Wait, what? I'm not allowed to question a Jew? Are you trying to imply I'm anti-Semitic? Do you often threaten people who disagree with you?

I'd be accusing you of anti-semetism right now for daring to question me. Because that's how it works.

No that’s not how it works.

Israel is commiting Genocide and war crimes so it can continue its occupation

And Israel are? Oh stop it

In the words of the what now??

Please can you give me the source, because I am also Orthodox (ffb, בית יעקב educated, went to Israel Sem), and this one is new on me 🤔

@quantumbutterfly

"They are not 'the good guys'."

Seriously, this isn't some bloody film with goodies and baddies. Jesus.

Would you consider Nelson Mandela a good guy or a bad guy?

He was labelled a terrorist until 2008.

where do you get to anti-semitism in this conversation?!

@EasternStandard has been polite and measured in that conversation thread, I don't understand why you are jumping in to suggest that her next step would be to shut you down with a false antisemitism claim.

You're comparing f Nelson Mandela
To Hamas

FFS

Agreeing to child refugees will most likely just trigger a rush of 20- and 30-something men claiming to be 17. Come on, we've all seen how this kind of thing plays out.

Are you @AhNowTed ?

Do you think Mandela and Hamas are comparable?

Definitely no comparison.

That wasn't the point I was making at all. I wasn't referring to Hamas.

Simply pointing out that simplistic terms of good guys and bad guys are totally inadequate.

Mandela and the ANC took up arms and bombs and as far as the west was concerned were terrorists. That's a fact. Did that make the apartheid South African government the good guys. No.

You make my point for me really.

The UK rallies are ostensibly pro-peace but are in reality pro-palestinian as if there are good guys and bad guys, this is the diet fed to people who may be well meaning but have no clue about the history of blood shed. The Palestinians have blood on their hands too but theirs is 'resistance' apparently.

If you are old enough to have visited the dome in 2000 you may remember the 'voices' exhibit. Close up you could hear individual stories but the further you stood away the more it became a cacophony it was impossible to make sense of.

Israel has not been proved to be "committing genocide and war crimes"
Please do not spread misinformation.

Israel does not "occupy" Gaza.

Whether a territory is occupied is a question of fact, meaning that it is solely governed by the facts on the ground, not whether the relevant governments perceive themselves as occupying or occupied.
Under this factual inquiry, a territory is considered occupied when it falls under “effective control of hostile foreign armed forces.”

Traditionally, effective control requires three main components: the physical presence of a foreign military without consent; the inability of a local sovereign to exercise control because of foreign forces’ presence; and the imposition of occupying forces’ authority.

An "occupation" generally ends when the occupying power withdraws, retreats, or hands over authority to a local government.

Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005.

Wow that was good of them to leave Gaza, total good guys. Why were they there, did they behave? Nobody ask!

They're occupying Palestine. Its very important that we pretend that they moved in with flowers and presents and everyone got to stay in their homes and on their land though isn't it. Oh those intrinsically savage Palestinians! Don't help them, they'll get you too!

@onegrumpyoldwoman

Traditionally, effective control requires three main components: the physical presence of a foreign military without consent; the inability of a local sovereign to exercise control because of foreign forces’ presence; and the imposition of occupying forces’ authority.

Isn't that exactly what's happening right now?

Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005

In name only, they continued to exert a lot of control.

@onegrumpyoldwoman

"An "occupation" generally ends when the occupying power withdraws, retreats, or hands over authority to a local government.

Israel unilaterally disengaged from the Gaza Strip in 2005."

Not really.

Israel (before Oct 7) controls its northern border, and Egypt its southern border in agreeement with Israel. Neither allow free travel and the borders are heavily militarised.

Israel controls Gazas airspace and waters. Israel "allows" Gaza fishermen a zone of 6 nautical miles. There is obviously no air travel, nor airstrip.

Israel decides what goes in and out of Gaza, and can restrict supplies, and has done, including the import of food, water, supplies, medicine, materials.

Here's just a small example.

www.timesofisrael.com/gazza-fisherman-get-boats-back-in-ship-shape-as-israel-lifts-ban-on-fiberglass/

Not quite the rosy picture is it.

Gaza was invaded by Israel in 1967. As was Syria , The West Bank and Egypt. I'm not sure it was under Egyptian government unless you mean during Ottoman times?

I used to work with a National Front bloke in the 80s. That's exactly what he said about Jewish people. For shame.

Please read the actual comment before jumping to silly conclusions.

I never said she was, I was making the point that "had I BEEN A ZIONIST JEW rather than Orthodox, my tactic would have been to call her Anti-semetic for daring to argue with me"

Don't accuse me of something I clearly did not say.