Admitting Gazan refugees would be proof that Britain has a death wish

[Cantonet]

Camilla Tominey in the Telegraph today.
The sheer level of hatred in this article horrifies me. Am I wrong to feel so shocked by this?

Stop ignoring the part the surrounding Arab nations played in all this, they weren't exactly innocent bystanders. They expelled hundreds of thousands of Jewish citizens, often making them stateless as they weren't allowed to keep their citizenships. And, of course, Egypt and Jordan occupied the Palestinian territories before 1967. And before that, the fact that vast amounts of Palestinians left Israel in the lead up to Israeli independence because they were told to do so by the surrounding Arab nations, so they wouldn't be harmed during the impending war. They intended to move back once the war was over but that was because they hadn't counted on Israel winning the war which obviously scuppered those plans.

Don't blame the west without also acknowledging the failings of other countries in the middle east.

Humdingerydoo, you also have to acknowledge the problems caused in the Middle East and Africa by colonisation and two world wars, it’s all wrapped up together. Netanyahu is a product of Europe as are many in the war cabinet. Ultimately the countries surrounding Israel are poor, they shouldn’t have to deal with the refugees a state proper up by the west created. The west have created a situation where millions of people have nowhere to go. This is there baby they have created they can’t dump it on the neighbour’s door. However I want Palestinians to have their own state, but I think a two state solution was just a lie peddled.

Of course it's all wrapped up, but I don't think it's particularly helpful to keep looking back and trying to figure out who to blame and then telling them to sort it out several decades or centuries later.

History didn't start when Israel was created. The Palestinians aren't the only people to have been displaced.

My immediate family was displaced from both Poland and from Iraq. Should we get the Polish and Iraqi governments to give us our land back? Or would that be considered unreasonable as then whoever lives there now would have to leave, going back to where they were from and kicking them out etc etc. It's not practical or sensible. So we look forward. We stop hating. We move on. It's the only way.

Absolutely this. We cannot change the past we move forward from where we are.

My point is we don’t actually need to go back longer then last week really Humdingerydoo, when there are certain countries supplying the very weapons that are creating refugees with no homes or liveable land to live on. It’s all very well telling the poor neighbouring countries to now deal with the problems these awful weapons have created. Realistically they know that if they take on millions of refugees even if they could handle it financially and all the other issues it would bring, their own population would become the next intended testing target of those American weapons, because Arab lives do not matter.
So indeed a better solution is needed then simple dumping the problem on other people. If a country is happy to supply these weapons they should be happy to deal with the refugees it creates, even if it inconvenient for them. It’s nothing about hate.

This is the problem with these discussions, the goal posts keep changing. First the west are responsible because of actions taken a century ago, colonisation, world wars. Then the problem is actually that surrounding Arab nations can't afford to take in refugees, which then turns into no actually, even if they could afford it they can't take them in because then Americans will just find new Arabs to kill because of the new soundbite "Arab lives don't matter"?

You seem to be undecided on what the problem is, just very, very sure the problem lies 100% with the west and not at all with the Arab states who started the war on Israel in 1948 and then essentially haven't stopped since, on and off. They also kicked 900 000 Jews out of their own countries and took their land. They created a major refugee crisis in Israel at the time, yet weirdly there was no equivalent of UNRWA for them to rely on, dedicated solely to them? So Israel got on with it and took in more refugees than they could handle or afford without financial assistance from the Arab countries that created the refugee crisis. But now other countries obviously can't be expected to the same, that would just be unfair.

As always, one rule for Israel and another rule for everyone else.

Saudi is a wealthy Arab country

Agree with you about Israel

The goal posts haven’t changed, most but obviously not all of the recent and historic problems in the Middle East have been caused by the West. Israel should of course be treated like any other country, contrary to what you believe Humdingerydoo it has taken enormous amounts of efforts by some very brave people despite some appalling threats from America to hold Netanyahu criminally responsible for what is happening in Gaza. No one is above the law is actually the new sound bite and let’s hope it stays that way. If you truly believe in a two state solution, the destruction of Gaza must stop. It may already be too late because of all the unexploded bombs and the reluctance of other countries to rebuild it when it is likely to be destroyed again. Clearly Israel isn’t surrounded by enemies. Jordan shot down recently Iranian missiles. Arab countries have done very little to protect Palestinians from the worst slaughter they have suffered since the creation of Israel. Palestinians are the ones who are utterly defenceless at the moment and the international community should bear that in mind.

"Clearly Israel isn’t surrounded by enemies" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Classic.

Yeh might want to rethink that one

It isn’t surrounded by enemies, the evidence it can do whatever it likes with only the mildest condemnation. I just can’t understand why you have utterly no sympathy for the civilians of Gaza Humdingerydoo who are living in the most deplorable and dangerous conditions.

If in doubt, just make stuff up. Why not?

What stuff am I making up? Egypt has a peace agreement with Israel, Jordan defended Israel against Iranian missiles recently. Syria and Lebanon are in no place to attack Israel. Isreal is in a pretty good place to carry on doing whatever it wants. Anyway this thread is about refugees. What happens to millions of people that may not have anywhere to go largely due to western weapons.

I have plenty of sympathy for the civilians in Gaza. You really need to stop making stuff up, both about me and about the world in general.

I’m not making stuff up, I’m giving my opinion like anyone else the way I see things. Anyone who doesn’t want an immediate ceasefire does not care about Gazans, they cannot take much more. Israel has a war criminal in charge who isn’t prepared to stop.

It isn’t surrounded by enemies

Don't want to derail but can't let this go unchecked. Am I missing some kind of irony here?

The iron dome is there for a reason. Israeli families have a safe room for a reason. Look, criticise Israel all you like, there's certainly much to criticise with this shower of ultra right maniacs in Government. But if you want to be taken seriously, at least get the basics right.

...whereas Gaza is led by peacelovers always ready to negotiate and compromise.

It is my opinion, the same way saying Israel is surrounded by enemies is an opinion. It has an iron dome to protect itself mainly from Hamas. Israel has done a lot of normalising of relations with Arab states. I don’t see Israel presently as being the one under attack from its neighbours. This thread is about Palestinians anyway who are the ones that are not just under threat but at risk of genocide from its occupier which is more significant then Israel not being friends with its neighbours and I’m not going to mention this again as it derails from the thread title.

“Clearly Israel isn’t surrounded by enemies"
The link between satire and tragedy has never been more effectively demonstrated.

It's hard to discuss this with someone who seems to be unaware that Israel has been under attack from Lebanon and Yemen since October. Maybe remove your anti-Israel blinkers for a moment so you can get a glimpse of reality.

This is the level of utter denial we're dealing with. It's truly mind-blowing.

I want to talk about Palestinians not about Israel to be honest. Israelis are not living in refugee camps whilst being bombed. Think about this level of denial. Netanyahu isn’t going to stop.

Did you finally realise you were talking absolute nonsense so no longer want to continue that conversation? Fair enough.

But yes, most Israelis aren't living in refugee camps while being bombed - they're mostly living in apartments or houses while being bombed by the neighbours you seem to think are friendly. My nieces and nephews now all share one bedroom which is also their bomb shelter so the parents don't have to keep running back and forth moving sleeping children when the siren goes off. The baby's nursery (as in childcare) is in a bomb shelter permanently now. There isn't enough space for all the children so they can only attend every second day.

Friendly neighbours, yeah?

Israel being surrounded by enemies isn't an opinion

It's a fact

As is the fact they've been constantly under attack for the last 8 months.

It’s not denial; it’s conscious bad faith. I see thus time and time again in debates on this topic; and good faith posters waste their time taking it seriously and trying to debate with it.
my own view is that people who aim at disinformation and blinding people with BS should not be treated with that level of respect. They know what they are doing and we should show them that we know.