How have we come to a state where the police confront someone for being overtly Jewish?

[mids2019]

Just how?

I think at best this inept policing at worst vile anti semitism.

I suppose it is now in the open that central London has become effectively a no go area for Jews given the potential for abuse from hate marchers.

Can't we just stop these marches so Jews can go about their business?

Making stuff up? I wish I was. The number of times I have been called antisemitic/ pro Hamas/a useful idiot/ a leftie for voicing my disgust at the actions of the Israeli government is of the chart.
Do not try to deny this.

I think that there's a movement to set up 'Zionist' as a cartoon character bad guy - the Nazi, the white supremacist, (which doesn't make sense as Jews are ethnically varied), the supporter of genocide so that a particular group can position themselves as the 'good guys'. It also means that they can feel smug and superior when saying terrible things like 'I want to kill all Zionists' instead of sounding like a psychopath (see the recently released video of the organiser of the Columbia protests expressing their desire to kill Zionists).

It reminds me of how another group (although I suspect there is a crossover) uses the word 'TERF'. TERFs are evil, kill all TERFs etc.

It's used as part of cult thinking and a purity spiral. Are YOU a Zionist? Do you hate Zionists? Zionists not allowed.

It's also worth knowing that there is a history of using 'Zionist' as a code word for Jew, by those who want to express antisemitic sentiments but not be overtly antisemitic. So all the old tropes about Jews being blood-thirsty puppet masters who secretly control the world simply became Zionists being bloody-thirsty puppet masters who secretly control the world. Jeremy Corbyn acknowledged that some antisemites use Zionist as a code-word when he got in trouble for talking about Zionists having no sense of humour. This coding of Zionist meaning Jew is obviously still going on now, while you also have the people using Zionist meaning Nazi ethnic cleanser.

And then you have Zionist Jews who support the idea of a Jewish state in Israel, who are wondering when the word 'purely' got inserted in front of Jewish because as far as they were aware, that was never a requirement.

I think you have a point about the marches. The difference as I see it though is that that marches are for a ceasefire, some antisemitic and anti Israel marchers then joined. It was not an anti Israel / anti Jew march that some people wanting a ceasefire then joined.

I've been called all those names on these threads as well. Multiple times.
For balance, I've also been called an apologist for Israel and supporter of their actions as well.

Because they weren't the only user on here saying they were zionist. So why is it so difficult to get a definition/ idea of it from the horses mouth?
You would rather I go online where a lot of the information is inaccurate?

I've decided to put the question directly to those, just like many users who have asked those who identify as pro-Palestinians what they want for Israel. It's a 2-way street.

If you cannot answer a basic question, then stop asking questions of your own.

The thread WAS about that, but you know very well it has changed. It's a common pattern on here from users like you and responses from those who identify as zionist, consistently hostile (just look at your own response). You are not above the rest of us I'm afraid. No matter how much you think you are. The hatred you have in your heart to those different to you is astounding and transparent.

If I don't understand, then it is perfectly acceptable to state that.

The reason I ask is because I thought Zionist wanted a Jewish only state? Which would be racist.

How do you expect the Palestinians to co-exist somewhere where they are seen as lesser than by their government?

Really???? How so?

By that logic if we were condemning the holocaust then everyone would be anti-german?

Condemning the actions of a government does not equate to condemning their entire population. I am anti-Israeli government. Not anti-Jew. Anyone who can honestly support the Israeli governments actions deserves hell. Just like anyone who supports Hamas does. However, I think that convos for an entirely different thread.

The reason I ask is because I thought Zionist wanted a Jewish only state? Which would be racist.

Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, defended his draft of the Nation-State bill on 26 November 2014, declaring Israel to be "The nation-state of the Jewish people, and the Jewish people alone".[38] He also clarified: "I want a state of one nation: the Jewish nation-state, which includes non-Jews with equal rights."[39] Being the land of the Jewish people, the PM is of the opinion that Israel is thus entitled to principles that combine the nation and the state of the Jewish people and grant "equal rights for all its citizens, without discrimination against religion, race, or sex".[40]

I mean, Netanyahu is despicable and an extremist and a racist, but even he here is saying Israel includes non-Jews with equal rights. I don't think Zionist as a position = ethnic cleanser. There may be some Zionists with that opinion, but that doesn't make it the definition.

Once again - this thread should be about comments pertaining to:

How have we come to a state where the police confront someone for being overtly Jewish?

How have we come to a state where the police confront someone for being overtly Jewish?

Sleepwalking? Assuming that all people are 'good' because we think we are? Good is not a universal construct, people who celebrated 7/10 consider themselves to be good people. I do not celebrate the death of innocents in Gaza and I would fear those who do. I do not celebrate the death of Israelis and I would fear those who do.

What that fear informs you to to do is between you and your God.

If you have a faith, and that faith informs you to heal and not hurt I will not fear you. If your faith informs you otherwise then I will, whoever you are, and this is not a phobia, phobias are irrational.

People hide the hate in their words but their actions tell you who they are.

https://bod.org.uk/bod-news/video-vigil-for-the-hostages/

State bill on 26 November 2014, declaring Israel to be "The nation-state of the Jewish people, and the Jewish people alone".[38] He also clarified: "I want a state of one nation: the Jewish nation-state, which includes non-Jews with equal rights."[39]
@noblegiraffe that statement appears a complete contradiction to me. I don't understand what it's trying to say

Neither do I, but if he's clarifying that he wants non-Jews to have equal rights in Israel, then it would seem that ethnically cleansing non-Jews from Israel isn't the assumed or acceptable position of Zionists.

It seems that some think there are two types of Jew - the one who visibly denounces Israel and goes on the marches, and the "Zionist" who wants to ethnically cleanse Israel of non-Jews (regardless of whether this is true or not). If you are not the former, you must be the latter.

Yes this happens it's a discussion forum things can go off on tangents as real life conversations often do. No idea why people need to point the obvious out just subtlety steer it back.

Because the world is entirely fucked up.

Because no one picks up a book anymore and takes their history lessons in 30 seconds from TikTok.

Because most people have No Idea the persecution Jewish people have suffered for Millennia

I say this as a UK -born atheist.

The* world is* fucked up, but I didn't break it, it was a bigger boy and he ran away...he went that way...

Helpful

as ever.

It's a common pattern on here from users like you and responses from those who identify as zionist, consistently hostile (just look at your own response). You are not above the rest of us I'm afraid. No matter how much you think you are. The hatred you have in your heart to those different to you is astounding and transparent.

What a projection.

@mrsrussel @namechangedforconfusion (same poster, you had a name change fail earlier) If that's your starting point for a discussion about Zionism, it's unlikely any Zionists/Jewish posters would choose to engage with you on the subject because it's not asking questions, it's stating biased opinions as if they're facts and demanding answers because you can't be bothered to expand your own sphere of information outwards from some clearly extremely narrow-minded sources.

Exasperation expressed by posters banging their heads against the brick wall of your misinformation and pre-conceived notions-which you're clearly not keen to have disproved- doesn't equal hostility.

Becky at Mumsnet clearly felt the need to point out the obvious too and its their board. I tried to steer it back but it was promptly then derailed.

Just saying.

@mrsrussel if it wasn’t clear, I’m a religious Jew, living in Israel, and this is how I see Zionism.

Wouldn't that be better? From everything ive heard about being a zionist is that they only want jewish people living In Israel and dont want any Palestinians there. So is this true or not?
not true
I don’t know where you have seen this, but that’s not a version of Zionism I’ve seen anywhere

And because Jews are such a tiny group, many people have not met )or knowingly met) someone Jewish, let alone an Orthodox Jew, so misinformation spreads.

I don’t know where you have seen this, but that’s not a version of Zionism I’ve seen anywhere

I've seen it everywhere that I've seen Zionism equated with Nazism, genocide-support, white supremacy, evil. If you understand that, as mrsrussel has been led to believe, Zionists want to ethnically cleanse Israel, then that makes sense.

It's being used in exactly the same way that 'TERF' has been used to demonise. TERFs are hateful bigot transphobes who deserve to die - even if they aren't.

I mean that interpretation of Zionism is everywhere where you see Zionists being demonised.

Not that it is an accurate interpretation of Zionism.

Frankly I don't see how Israel will achieve or maintain a 'Jewish state, for Jewish people alone' while granting equal rights to non Jewish citizens. Simple demographics changes and relative birth rates will scupper this. Unless maybe Jewish people had a massive conversion drive and encouraged converts to join them... can't really see that working either though.
I think Israel is in a bit of a pickle to be honest. In a similar way South Korea is.

When is this post going to be taken down?
I've reported it many times now and the MN team are allowing for lies, misleading information, hate speech to be perpetuated.

I think it's become abundantly clear both sides cannot engage in healthy dialogue or debate. Neither can agree to disagree.