To say the London Palestinian marches should be stopped

[KarmaCaramello]

They are weekly marches found to be organised by organisations with links to Hamas, and at least one ex Hamas member.

They are supporting a terrorist organisation that has just committed the deadliest day in Israel’s history. An Iranian dissident was arrested for holding a sign saying Hamas is Terrorist, despite the fact that they are a UK-designated terrorist organisation - because protestors assaulted him on seeing the sign.

If they were calling for peace and fewer casualties they would be condemning Hamas and calling for them to surrender.

AIBU to think this is deeply disturbing and has no place on the streets of London. Note - terrorist support is illegal and not protected speech.

you could watch channel 4 now if you like. Plenty of moving images of them bombing Rafah.

That would obviously not be the footage Trippily claimed to have seen and that I've requested a link to. 🤦‍♂️

I should think any videos come from the only remaining Al Jazeera reporters or people in Gaza -discredited people to you perhaps.
Or AI. So look for them yourself in case you can find one you think is real.

There is a poster on these threads who had hospital worker/doctor friends murdered with their hands tied behind their backs at the time these bulldozing and buryings happened at that hospital. I believe her/him about those friends.

This thread is being derailed in an inflammatory way as it is about whether marches should be stopped, NOT what Israel is doing in Gaza. Every thread goes this way.

Scirocco is the poster you're talking about. I very much hope that there's a serious investigation into what happened to her friends. If medical staff were tied up and executed, that is a terrible crime which I hope the perpetrators are brought to justice for.

That's obviously a completely separate crime from bulldozing and burying living patients. Any allegations of such a lurid and sensationalist crime surely warrant a slight pause for thought. If no footage exists, then it's reasonable to question whether it's true or propaganda. If there is footage, then I'd hope that digital experts could try to analyse it for obvious alterations. If it seems genuine, then it should certainly be part of a full investigation and again, perpetrators brought to justice.

There were reports, including from medics at the scene, like those medics killed with their hands tied mentioned before, of Gazans being buried alive after being bulldozed outside a hospital compound during a siege last December.

If the IDF had ever allowed for independent investigators it would be easier to discredit the accounts of any atrocities alleged to have been committed by them during those three weeks.

There is another poster on here who many years ago was working in Palestine and saw a young person she worked with run over by a bulldozer.

There was a well known ‘bulldoze and bury‘ act in 1988.
https://www.nytimes.com/1988/02/16/world/israel-detains-2-in-burial-alive-of-palestinians.html
Not relevant, except that it is not unknown.

Yes, let us hope one day any video footage found that taken by surviving people who were there at the time can be investigated by independent experts.

It has just occurred to me, with these thousands dead, where are all their mobiles? I wonder what is on them if they can be unlocked.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-shooting-palestinians-beach-d0ffbbda3c0aa8873483b6685bb9ddd0

@statsfun might be concerned that the video was apparently edited, according to the IDF

“In response to the beach shootings, the Israeli army said Saturday that the video was edited and depicts two separate incidents across different locations in central Gaza. Al Jazeera said both shootings took place close to each other on a beachfront southwest of Gaza City.”

I saw that in CNN report too and they said the IDF asked Al Jazeera for an unedited version.

May be one day Al Jazeera can let another investigator see it.

There's a video here
I should add a trigger warning

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/03/30/gaza-idf-kills-2-palestinians-buries-bodies-bulldozer-coren-vpx.cnn

@ScrollingLeaves @statsfun thank you. I hope there can be a full investigation. I've seen, heard and read eyewitness reports from the hospital attacks, and it sounds to me like war crimes, but justice requires official investigation. Two of my friends are still missing. Their families don't know if they're alive (and probably being tortured), dead in unmarked graves, or injured and unidentified somewhere.

If you honestly take a step back and listen to yourselves... you are being semantic about the acts of people being buried alive, people being tied up and murdered, people being bombed in refugee camps, people having inhumane things happen to them.

It is because these things are happening, being reported, being documented, that the marches are happening.

You only need to look for them yourself and you will find them, as I literally just did.

But you will not, or perhaps can not, believe that these things are either happening - or that if they are that they are wrong and inhumane.

If you really want to find evidence of inhumane practices in the past six months, you can look at the many many many links posted here in the conflict in the middle east thread. You can look at scores of BBC reports, you can find many instances of war crimes if you listen to any number of legal specialists.

People being petulant and dissonant about something this grave is just heartbreaking to witness.

Not all medics are automatically telling the truth.

The young woman run over by a bulldozer was an American protestor, who stood in front of a bulldozer to prevent it being used. Other protestors said her death was deliberate; Israel concluded that it was an accident due to poor visibility from within the bulldozer.

The 1988 incident is certainly shocking, and does seem to have been treated as the crime it was. The soldiers were detained, Israelis were appalled and spoke out against it. It's worth noting that the people covered in dirt by the bulldozer didn't die.

Neither of these things point to the IDF deliberately killing patients by burying them alive.

If genuine proof is shown that it happened, it would obviously be a horrific crime and I'll obviously condemn that and expect the perpetrators to be brought to justice.

But I'm not going to just believe it because someone says so.

They've killed a good number of patients and medical staff it seems and buried them in mass graves. Marginally better than being buried alive I guess. If we're splitting hairs

I'm so sorry for your friends and their families @Scirocco

I do believe that war crimes happen. And I hope that if that is what has happened here, then the truth does come out in an official investigation as you say.

That's not likely though, is it.

Not semantic.

This is a thread about whether the LONDON marches should be stopped.

Yes or no.

Not a pile on about "evil" Israel.

Every. Single. Time.

The post you've quoted was 6 weeks ago. I have not seen that poster on the threads for a longtime.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49404-public-tends-to-disapprove-of-pro-palestinian-marches-in-london

There has been notable hostility towards the pro-Palestinian marches in some quarters, and our poll finds that the British public tend to take a negative view of those marches taking place in London. More than four in ten (43%) say they disapprove of the marches, compared to only 33% who approve.

Why did youbumb this thread with a random insta account? Is it the same account as your antisemitic Torah thread?

Saying 'not semantic' just dismisses the whole point. And also makes it semantic - as well as hair splitting and pedantic.

I and many others have explained why the London marches are happening. You must be living in a bubble to really not understand why people feel moved enough to march. Had Israel not used disproportionate force after October 7th we would not be seeing such a large number of people turning up every week.

There's something very undemocratic about not allowing people the right to protest, particularly when it is against what the UN calls possible war crimes.

Thought so!

Thank you for saying that.

The entire point of my asking that specific poster regarding the video they claimed to have seen is to ascertain whether that specific footage is from this conflict or not.

There have been videos on the Internet claiming to show the IDF burying people alive with a bulldozer.

Except the footage was from several years ago. And NOT from Gaza at all.

Obviously this fact has escaped the thinking of several posters since i asked a specific question of a specific poster.🤷‍♂️

That sort of thing adds to conflict, tensions and disinformation that can mislead often well meaning people.

So, your only thought is footage from Al Jazeera or Gazans?

But not another explanation such as people taking footage from unrelated events somewhere else some years ago?

And, yes, footage claiming to show IDF burying people alive with a bulldozer has been shown to not be from the 2023-24 war.

I'm suggesting that Trippily watched one of those fake videos.

France 24, for example, did a report on it shortly after the claims was made online:

Hence......🤷‍♂️

Yes, Israel would never bulldoze civilians. Oh wait...

Yes, fake videos claiming to show the IDF driving over people with a bulldozer would never happen....oh, wait(!) 🤦‍♂️

Never, ever run before you can walk.

https://fullfact.org/online/bulldozer-hospital-Gaza-video-false/

news.abplive.com/fact-check/fact-check-2013-rabaa-massacre-video-passed-of-as-israel-bulldozing-patients-at-gaza-hospital-1650976