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Conflict in the Middle East
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12
stormy4319trevor · 30/01/2024 13:57

@Parkingt111 Yes, I saw he said they would control Gaza in the same way as the West Bank. He mentioned this hospital killing as an example of the military freedom of operation they could have in Gaza, (from Guardian.) I suppose this may be to reassure the public that nothing like Oct 7th would happen again. I remember the US was ruling out military occupation, so will be interesting to see what happens from their end.

Dulra · 30/01/2024 13:59

hogmanayhoolie · 30/01/2024 13:44

It's not that I don't care about law, it's just that I don't care about how and where terrorists are eliminated

I really can't find it in my heart of GAF

I would imagine had I lost family on 7th October, then I'd be celebrating too

There are plenty of murderers, rapists, child abusers that I would love to see disposed of in this way BUT we have laws to ensure it doesn't become a free for all and to ensure people's rights are protected which includes right to a fair trial. Dressing up and imitating medical staff to carry out an execution in a hospital ward is wrong on so many levels and has now set a very dangerous precedent. People complain that the terrorists don't follow any laws, no they don't that's why they are called terrorists! When a countries own defence force resort to terrorist tactics the lines are becoming dangerously blurred. Is it back to the wild west? An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth? Netanyahu is continuing to put Israeli lives at risk with these kind of tactics.

hogmanayhoolie · 30/01/2024 14:00

I wish I could be comfortable with supporting terrorists but I can't seem to do that

I don't see them as just bad people 🤷🏻‍♀️

AliceA2021 · 30/01/2024 14:00

Desertrose2023 · 30/01/2024 13:44

As far as I can tell the Israeli army isn’t following any rules. This incident a classic example.

so by your logic the Israeli army is acting no better than terrorists.

Did you miss the 'will be found accountable' bit?

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:01

inkworks273 · 30/01/2024 13:07

No arrest and fair trial? Just murder them in cold blood while they are unarmed in a hospital room? That seems reasonable to you?

You need to read some of the witness statements and autopsy reports of the Hamas atrocities committed on innocent women and children including babies. That’s the reason for this. Mosad and the IDF will continue until they are satisfied the threat of further acts of brutality is secured. And what about all the hostages the Palestinian terrorists have abducted, including children.

Hamas are the Einsatzgruppen, and there is only one way to deal with them. History has taught the Jewish people that. This time they’re not going to fight back.

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:02

AliceA2021 · 30/01/2024 13:30

It is 'interesting ' that many denied what occurred on 7th Oct, minimised rapes, torture and brutal killings. Some deny parts of it.

Some believe anything that tic toc shows from Gaza, others demand evidence if something is claimed by 1 side, Israel. There are many, many wrongs.

It's awful the amount of innocent children that have died in bombing and it was suggested by some that targeted hits take place, to minimise this. It appears that a targeted hit took place with no other casualties and people not happy. There are rules of engagement and rules which armies must abide by (although terrorists don't of course). Different sides are held to different standards of course.

Still innocent children die and hostages are still held and no ceasefire. Overriding sadness and can see no way ahead since hames will not surrender.

So much polarisation. Very little negotiation.

The suggestion to use precision and targeted hits has always been in the context of doing it while following the international laws of armed conflict. A precision or targeted hit is not automatically legal in all contexts.

What happened in the hospital was a war crime. It was not a legal targeted hit. It is as illegal as using phosphorus shells in an urban area.

There are not just illegal weapons, there are also illegal uses of legal weapons and tactics.

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:04

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:02

The suggestion to use precision and targeted hits has always been in the context of doing it while following the international laws of armed conflict. A precision or targeted hit is not automatically legal in all contexts.

What happened in the hospital was a war crime. It was not a legal targeted hit. It is as illegal as using phosphorus shells in an urban area.

There are not just illegal weapons, there are also illegal uses of legal weapons and tactics.

Edited

Did Hamas follow the laws of international armed conflict ?.

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:04

@hogmanayhoolie you're completely missing the point. Not sure anyone here supports terrorists but we support a proper rule of law which is imperative to keep us all safe. If the lawmakers don't stick to the rules of law they are putting everyone at risk

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:05

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:04

Did Hamas follow the laws of international armed conflict ?.

No that's why they are considered a terrorist organisation

Desertrose2023 · 30/01/2024 14:06

AliceA2021 · 30/01/2024 14:00

Did you miss the 'will be found accountable' bit?

And in what parallel universe has the Israeli army been held to account for ANY of its war crimes?

OP posts:
DeeLusional · 30/01/2024 14:06

Aswad · 30/01/2024 12:53

Thank you OP
I was confused by the deletion but glad to see you’ve re posted.

What I don’t understand is this.
These assassins have the intel to know who these men are, where they were staying, and what look like. Could they not have used this same intel to avoid the senseless killing of thousands of civilians and the destruction of homes, schools and hospitals?

Bit difficult when said terrorists are hiding in homes schools and hospitals.

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:08

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:05

No that's why they are considered a terrorist organisation

And that is what they are being treated as.

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:09

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:04

Did Hamas follow the laws of international armed conflict ?.

They haven’t always.

But the law makes it clear that your enemy not following the law is no excuse to not follow the law yourself. It is not a mitigating factor. It is not a get out of jail free card that allows you to break the laws too.

This goes both ways.

Normally we would see a state conducting the war more lawfully than the non state terrorists. I can’t say I have seen that at all.

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:12

DeeLusional · 30/01/2024 14:06

Bit difficult when said terrorists are hiding in homes schools and hospitals.

Lying in a hospital bed as an injured patient, partially paralysed is not hiding in a hospital. 🙄

International law forbids combatants going into a hospital to kill injured enemy combatants receiving treatment.

Thats why the military field hospitals have big red crosses or crescents on them because they are not a target. They cannot be raided, attacked, or besieged.

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:15

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:08

And that is what they are being treated as.

No, it’s a new unprecedented, completely illegal low.

Efacsen · 30/01/2024 14:16

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:15

No, it’s a new unprecedented, completely illegal low.

And it's made headlines across the world so everyone can see the moral army in action

hogmanayhoolie · 30/01/2024 14:21

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:04

@hogmanayhoolie you're completely missing the point. Not sure anyone here supports terrorists but we support a proper rule of law which is imperative to keep us all safe. If the lawmakers don't stick to the rules of law they are putting everyone at risk

I don't share your certainty that no one is supporting terrorists

Some posters think they are "bad people...but"

I am disgusted by the terrorists, for their goals, their actions, their greed and how they treat their own

I just don't think Israel should have to beat terrorists with one arm tied behind their back

The fewer terrorists stealing aid and hiding in schools and hospitals, the fewer deaths all round

I genuinely don't care about how and where they are offed and am also genuinely disgusted at all the crying over these poor men "assassinated in cold blood"

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:29

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:08

And that is what they are being treated as.

Absolutely that's how we want all evil murdering scum to be treated but it's illegal! There are plenty of examples from other countries where terrorists, injured after carrying out their terrorist attack, are treated in hospitals under armed guard and tight security and arrested and charged once deemed fit by medical staff. But not the IDF the most moral army in the world and Israel the only democracy in the middle east, they've got other ideas

stormy4319trevor · 30/01/2024 14:29

Yes, OK @hogmanayhoolie But it's the process that raises questions. Maybe these men did terrible things, and maybe they deserved it. But if execution without trial is normalised, how do you know they will always get the right people? Mistakes happen, that's why democracies have rigorous legal systems, for the sake of checks and balances.

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:32

stormy4319trevor · 30/01/2024 14:29

Yes, OK @hogmanayhoolie But it's the process that raises questions. Maybe these men did terrible things, and maybe they deserved it. But if execution without trial is normalised, how do you know they will always get the right people? Mistakes happen, that's why democracies have rigorous legal systems, for the sake of checks and balances.

100% Guildford four/ Birmingham six innocent men imprisoned for terrorism and years later proved innocent thank god they weren't executed

HeraSyndulla · 30/01/2024 14:33

MercanDede · 30/01/2024 14:09

They haven’t always.

But the law makes it clear that your enemy not following the law is no excuse to not follow the law yourself. It is not a mitigating factor. It is not a get out of jail free card that allows you to break the laws too.

This goes both ways.

Normally we would see a state conducting the war more lawfully than the non state terrorists. I can’t say I have seen that at all.

Hamas committed the most appalling atrocities on innocent people but you seem to some how wave that away and bizarrely quote some sort of rule book at the very people who were brutally attacked and abducted. It doesn’t work like that. The Israelis are going wait until it happens again , they are going to fight back.

SomeCatFromJapan · 30/01/2024 14:34

Thing is the US does similar, they also carry out targeted stikes and drone strikes. Would you allay that Bin Laden was unlawfully executed, for instance? Should he have been arrested and brought to trial instead?

Dulra · 30/01/2024 14:34

hogmanayhoolie · 30/01/2024 14:21

I don't share your certainty that no one is supporting terrorists

Some posters think they are "bad people...but"

I am disgusted by the terrorists, for their goals, their actions, their greed and how they treat their own

I just don't think Israel should have to beat terrorists with one arm tied behind their back

The fewer terrorists stealing aid and hiding in schools and hospitals, the fewer deaths all round

I genuinely don't care about how and where they are offed and am also genuinely disgusted at all the crying over these poor men "assassinated in cold blood"

That's fine but I would prefer to live in society that follows the rule of law. I would feel a lot safer.

Parkingt111 · 30/01/2024 14:35

Does hospitals, as protected places according to international law mean nothing now? How are the continuous attacks on health care infrastructure being justified? That's what really irks me
Hospitals have a protected status for a reason, yet we are seeing attacks on health care workers, and buildings almost daily in Gaza. Is this now going to be the norm for the occupied territories too?

Desertrose2023 · 30/01/2024 14:36

hogmanayhoolie · 30/01/2024 14:21

I don't share your certainty that no one is supporting terrorists

Some posters think they are "bad people...but"

I am disgusted by the terrorists, for their goals, their actions, their greed and how they treat their own

I just don't think Israel should have to beat terrorists with one arm tied behind their back

The fewer terrorists stealing aid and hiding in schools and hospitals, the fewer deaths all round

I genuinely don't care about how and where they are offed and am also genuinely disgusted at all the crying over these poor men "assassinated in cold blood"

I guess different people have different views on what is “disgusting”.

dressing up in a hijab and barging into a place of healing - in an illegally occupied area- to blow out someone’s brains while they lie unarmed and defenseless fits the description pretty well in my view.

OP posts: