Israel ‘hit squad’ kill 3 Palestinians in West Bank Hospital

[Desertrose2023]

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/1/30/israel-troops-kill-three-palestinians-in-west-bank-hospital-ministry

Oh Ok, I get what you are saying, though don't have the time to look it up again myself. Sounds like the arrest option was unlikely, but they would have taken it if Bin Laden surrendered. I really don't want to draw comparisons, but had he been in a public hospital bed, and not in a guarded compound, the operation may have been different. I think Bin Laden was also a public figure, his views and intentions public knowledge, also, whereas I have never heard of these men and don't know what crimes they committed. But I'm really waiting for more details or a statement before I draw conclusions. Too much is unknown for me.

I agree
Although I doubt there will be any statement from the dead. They can’t plead their innocence anymore

Trying to create a hypothetical where Bin Laden is in a hospital would be playing the Hypothesis Contrary To Fact.

Imaginary events don't change anything about the details or truth of a given situation, so is unhelpful.

But the United States has targeted hospitals under other situations in the past.

As it currently stands, yes, not a lot of credible information is known about this particular operation in the West Bank hospital.

Yet witness pages of confident pronouncements of an Israeli breach of IHL via perfidy.....🤷‍♂️

They went in there with one reason and one reason only ~ to execute these men.

As for your suggestion that the hospitals are "arms dumps or hiding places for hostages" there is literally no evidence/proof that is the case.

That was the intital claim given for the destruction of several hospitals. It was untrue. They raided others and nothing was found. (But they still left countless amounts of bodies behind.)

It is inflammatory to suggest what you are and irresponsible.

It still stands that if you're fine with this happening then it would also work in this country, too. Or wait, that would be a bit too close for comfort though, wouldn't it?

It also doesn't get away from the point that hospitals are meant to be safe places under law.

This has been broken countless times.

It should never be broken at all.

There have been countless confirmed reports about maternity wards being shot at also. Babies being left behind at another hospital as the remaining staff were forced to leave at gunpoint.

But wait as it is happening in Palestine that doesn't matter. Imagine it happening at a hospital here. Or Imagine this happening to one of your family members or close friends. It is horrific.

As has been posted before at various points, hospitals are not necessarily protected spaces.

And the presence of protected persons also cannot be used to render an area immune from military operations.

Like I said, we don't currently have enough information. On top of that, it is the ICC which would be the correct forum to determine if this specific case the thread was started can be considered to be a war crime.

Agree@BackandForthRoundandRound
and now they are disguising themselves as doctors, carrying wheelchairs and wearing hijab in order to carry out these heinous crimes.
Wheres the military insignia if they are legitimate army personnel or will Israel say ‘ it wasn’t us’!!
Just waiting for the excuses now

I must say I don't understand the perfidy issue - what it is, why it's a crime etc. What puzzled me is why the men were not arrested and tried. There's a possibility that they resisted, but I've not seen that claimed yet. I would have thought there were different punishments for different crimes, and how can they be decided on without a trial. I think it might become clearer over the next few days.

@BackandForthRoundandRound Can I ask why this particular incident is upsetting you so much, as it has clearly enraged you.

Was it the method of taking out the terrorists? Was it where it happened? It seems to have struck a particular chord with you judging by the number of posts

Just interested in understanding why this is such a trigger

Very basically
In this case perfidy relates to them dressing up to disguise who they really are in uniforms which, doctors patients etc, in war should give them immunity.

Perfidy is classed as a crime because it breaks down the distinction between civilians and combatants in conflicts.

It's essentially a situation where combatants disguise themselves as, say, civilians in some manner in order to gain an unfair advantage in conflicts.

But simply disguising oneself as a civilian isn't in and of itself enough to qualify as perfidy. Undercover operations under both International Humanitarian Law (military) and International Human Rights Law (police) aren't explicitly prohibited.

So perfidy involves significantly more than the mere act of disguising as a civilian, to give an example.

Like I said before, I really wouldn't speculate on precisely what happened in Ibn Sina Hospital. There's too many variables to consider. And a lack of detail.

But you can clearly see the automatic really quick to condemn posts in this thread ahead of information. I've seen this kind of reaction before in other special forces operations and those who are really quick very rarely come to accept what actually happened later on which can be years down the line. In the example I've got in mind, nearly 10 years down the line.

Credible information won't be forthcoming any time soon, I wager.

Thanks for the perfidy explanations all. I'm a bit better informed.

Going by your posts on this subject matter, not only on this thread but others relating, you do not have a genuine interest in asking.

I think that my posts on this thread have explained things quite clearly.

Sorry you feel that way @BackandForthRoundandRound

It was a genuine question

By the rule of law yes he should have been brought to trial. If nothing else they may have got more information out of him. He was executed and his body gone before anyone could even verify him.
We might not like the law, but it would be a complete free for all without it and civil society will just brea down.

Super insightful. Whilst you lecture us some more on perfidy and IHL, here is a video of the paralyzed human being whose brain matter was blown all over his hospital pillow by people you call special forces. Others would just call them terrorists.

His name was Bassel Al-Ghazzawi. Aged 18.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2yaj7towCQ/?igsh=MTN4YXgxNHBtNW81Mg==

He looked so young in that video.

He should have been arrested, not killed. He should have stood trial for any offences he committed AS A CHILD, not summarily executed from a place where he legally and morally should have been safe.

PIJ are not a nice organisation (to put it mildly), but he was a kid, growing up under oppression , joining the same group as his older brother. We don't even know what his crimes are. What we do know is that Israel doesn't use the death penalty in is justice system (only used twice, okay in 1988), and that this boy's offences (if any) were committed when he was a minor.

If he was arrested and found guilty, he would not have been out to death, so how can anyone excuse executing him without trial, from his hospital bed?

@Desertrose2023 Considering he could barely move and was confined to a hospital bed, I don't see how he could have been an imminent threat. So many videos and evidence of Israeli forces murdering defenceless people.

100% agree.

Yigal Amir, the 25 year Israeli old man who assassinated the Prime Minister of Israel Yitzhak Rabin, and someone who could quite plausibly be described as a domestic terrorist, was sentenced to imprisonment not death.

He clearly wasn’t an imminent threat, yet we have people on here so quick to spread propaganda and justify the cold blooded assassination of a defenseless human being. The double standards and ease with which people quickly lose any sense of morality when it comes to Palestinians is depressing.

The Israeli forces are not terrorists nor can they ever be as they are the military, special or intelligence forces of a recognised nation state that are illegally using terrorism tactics. Their members are lawful combatants who receive the protections of combatants under the Geneva convention. The use of terrorism tactics are war crimes.

Terrorist organisations are unsanctioned illegal groups due to not being the military, special or intelligence forces of a recognised nation state. Their members are unlawful combatants - which is a category of civilian under the Geneva Convention. Terrorists often almost exclusively use terrorism tactics, which are also war crimes. However, Hamas attacking IDF tanks and soldiers that are on the ground in Gaza, or West Bank is not terrorism. Regardless, because they are unlawful combatants, their very existence is illegal unlike the Israeli (or any other government) forces.

One was the paralysed man’s brother and the other a close friend. It is alleged they were plotting a terror attack but how? All three were foot soldiers and in different terrorist groups. And what is a paralysed man who is too injured to even be discharged from hospital going to do? It’s merely implausible allegation that the strike was justified to stop a future attack.

Even if them going in was justified to prevent a future attack, they should have gone in wearing their uniforms during business hours, spoken to the hospital director (not wearing them is a war crime) and the two abled men should have been arrested and civilian police placed to monitor the paralysed man in the hospital (killing them all is a war crime).

Where did you see that one of them was armed? All the reports I read was that they were all unarmed and put up no resistance.

Oh my goodness.... seriously. They have been terrorising the Palestinian people. They have been murdering innocents ~ including those who happen to have a white flag. They have bulldozed ~ yes, bulldozed ~ innocents who were camped outside a hospital. They have routinely assaulted young children. (Video proof of that also) Attacked ambulances. Attacked paramedics. Assaulted and killed hospital staff, including doctors. Forced hospital staff at gunpoint to leave premature babies in their hospital beds. (The babies passed away as they were left without any care or indeed anyone around for them to take their last breaths) Video proof exists of this also.

They target civilians and their houses. They raid civilian houses and then decide to nose around their underwear drawers (and film themselves doing so and post it in social media ~ one of whom was a British/Israeli who is back over here and there was a protest around him giving a "talk" to disadvantaged young boys) to film themselves destroying UN schools, hospitals and destroying shops also. Throwing items around and happily smashing them all.

Recording themselves dancing and singing about how they are going to "eradicate" the Palestinians. Boasting about how many children they have killed. They celebrate shooting pregnant women ~ that goes back some years and is also well documented. They target women and children.

They choose to destroy and cause terror to civilians.

They also like to target Palestinian journalists ~ and yes, they were wearing quite obvious Press vests. The surviving Palestinian journalists have spoken out and stated that their Press vests seem to actually make them more of a target. There have been countless videos where journalists have been shot at by snipers.

The illegal settlers have always tended to be backed up by them. Where both act like armed thugs. They dedicate explosives to their children... explosives which are destined to kill and maim other children.

Posting on social media how glad they are to be there to murder. (Yes, there are videos of this behaviour)

They are not the most moral army in the world.

They’re not terrorists. However , many of them are people not prepared to be part of the army, they’d be happier if they were an Influencer … and this is what happens when you force people to go to war that they don’t behave like an army member , they kill indiscriminately hoping daddy Israel government covers their deaths. Their members are committing war crimes and ICJ is not happy about this as they’re close to genocide.