To find the silence about UNRWA being Hamas hypocritical

[Muthaofcats]

I entirely understand the discomfort seeing images coming out of Gaza; but what I don’t get is those who choose to post about it on social media or campaign expressing their horror but being totally SILENT after October 7th (before Israeli had even responded), after evidence of the sexual violence suffered by those murdered in Israel and now, after finding out that UNWRA who they have all been sending donations to, are actually Hamas who perpetrated the atrocities.

Where is the outrage from these people at UNRWA?

Why are none of these vocal people not screaming from the roof tops at how horrendous this is !?! If it was true you care about humanity, why aren’t you horrified to learn you’ve all been donating to an organisation so closely linked to the rape and murder of innocent civilians ? (And this isn’t the first time unrwa has been linked to Hamas; their HQ is a Hamas building and they’ve famously been linked to training terrorists in their schools / got into hot water for removing the hollocaust from their curriculum)

if you are one of those white privileged women who posts on social media about a cease fire (I’m talking to those of you who have never been to the ME, or studied ME history and never taken up the cause of any of the other global conflicts); why is your outrage so one sided and blinkered ? Why don’t you acknowledge the horrors of the Israeli/ Jewish people too ? If you’re really the virtuous person you purport to be by taking up this cause, why don’t you care ? Or do you believe what Hamas did and are doing and promising to keep doing (murder all Jews) is justified ?

Genuinely find it bewildering.

This 72% is it from the whole population? Does it take children into account ? As they’re like 50% of the population

@Muthaofcats I would be interested to know the sample size of how many civilians were surveyed
If you or anyone else happens to know

There were scenes of street celebrations with Shani louk's body, of crowds surrounding hostages in the hands of militants.....

His research company, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR), has just published the findings of its latest survey into Palestinian attitudes.
Seven hundred and fifty adults were interviewed face to face in the West Bank, and 481 were interviewed in Gaza, also in person. The Gaza data collection was done during the recent truce, when it was safer for researchers to move about.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html

@EasterIssland thanks for sharing will give it a read

Given the problem regarding internet access being cut off and also people trying to survive being bombed, there is no way that everybody would have been able to be surveyed so I think it is a bit misleading to word it in that way.

I'm also curious about how many people were actually questioned in regards to this.

Also, I could see it from the other way, too. If I had just lost my home/a family member/friend/etc due to being bombed I wouldn't exactly be in the right frame of mind to consider anything like that and view it properly. There is also the fact that some who were apparently surveyed could have already lost a family member/and so on due to attacks by Israel or being taken away by Israeli forces

But even if you are right; you’re still acknowledging that the majority of a population have been brainwashed into believing an ideology that ultimately has murder and genocide at its heart (given Hamas explicit stated aim is to destroy Jews) . Propoganda is indeed dangerous; and I guess the point you are making is that these people are still humans and deserving of dignify and safety even if they have been brainwashed to believe things that lead to inhuman consequences (by western standards). I agree.

I guess this does feed back into the point of this thread which is that hypocritical and divisive perpetuation of only one side in a deeply complicated conflict is more than just bewildering, it is dangerous for continuing an ideology that ultimately dehumanises. This is what the anti Israel agenda does; it’s the psychological conditions that led to the Holocaust and why Jewish people feel so frightened seeing their western liberal frjends spit such vitriol against Israel without any awareness of the implications….

The poll was also done from 22 November to 3 December, when there had been two months of war and a very high death toll of Palestinian civilians, including thousands of children. I do wonder what part fear and anger might have played in affecting the responses? Desperate people will not respond the same way as people who are secure and not in danger of dying at any moment. They might have said yeah! Go Hamas because they are thinking that IDF tanks would be firing shells at them weeks earlier if it were not for Hamas fighting the ground troops pushing south.

Thank you for that. Considering the history with the West Bank, I can see why some people would have answered the way they did.

(And no ~ I am not supporting Hamas with my comment!)

No I’m not. The ideology is that Hamas are not murderers and are not intent on genocide. The ideology they believe is that Hamas are freedom fighters.

Hamas explicit aim isn’t to destroy Jews. That is actually Israeli propaganda. I know it is hard to untangle it all.

Have any surveys been done on Israeli support for the offensive against Gaza? I wouldn’t be surprised if there was quite a bit of support, even though it has resulted in the death of over 11,000 children and Israel are being tried for genocide.
And I imagine there are some overlapping factors between public support for such acts in both groups. So rather than believing the majority of people in Israel are cold hearted psychopaths, I like to think this support is in part driven by fear, ignorance, and propaganda

Misleading to word what? I said upfront that only 481 Gazans were polled and that is too small a sample size.

Have you actually read Hamas’ charter ?

or seen Ghazi Hamad interview !?

how is that Israeli propoganda ?

There have. I will look for a link. I just wanted to say they fact that there are daily protests of Israelis trying to stop the humanitarian aid going into Gaza (and succeeding some days) because they 100% believe the humanitarian aid is going direct to Hamas is evidence of propaganda being done on Israelis by their own government too.

Yes I have. The 1988 charter was tossed in a bin and burnt over twenty years ago. Their aim is the two state solution along 1967 borders. Which they have offered numerous times and is in their current charter.

One old interview that only talks about overthrowing the Israeli government doesn’t equate to genocidal intent. It takes at least 20 pages of very recent interviews with clearly genocidal statements from numerous officials from the highest levels to prove intent, as shown by South Africa at the ICJ.

I found this report on Rueters
”In the poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI), 56% of those questioned said continuing the military offensive was the best way to recover the hostages, while 24% thought a swap deal including the release of thousands more Palestinian prisoners from Israel's jails would be best.”
”The poll was conducted among 746 respondents between Dec. 25-28, with a 95% confidence level, the IDI said.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/

hmmm, how about storming young people at a music festival and ripping grandmothers and babies from their beds and raping and murdering them? Does that equate to genocidal intent ?

and you realise Ghazi Hamad interview was post October 7th!?

And this is in the main in protest about hamas not releasing all the hostages - which is against international law

Found the IDI poll referenced by reuters
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/52496

Interestingly, responses are broken out by ethnicity, e.g.

The Functioning of IDF Forces and the War Cabinet
Among Jewish interviewees, 88% give a positive assessment of the performance of IDF forces in the war until now. By contrast, only a minority of Arab interviewees concur (43%).

Regarding the functioning of the war cabinet, only a minority (albeit large) of Jews (46%) and a small minority of Arabs (14%) hold a positive view.

You were quicker than me…

I found this, main headline below. There is also a big difference between left and right. In case it’s of interest it says they interviewed 766 people. Couldn’t easily see any information on how they selected their sample.

About two-thirds (66%) of Israelis say they do not think Israel should agree to US demands to shift to a phase of the war with a reduced heavy bombing in populous areas. 75% of Jewish Israelis oppose meeting the demands, compared to only 21% of Arab Israelis.

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/52085

Yes, they think that stopping the aid will put pressure on Hamas to release the hostages (which is a war crime for Hamas to have hostages). But the reason they think that is they have said they believe the humanitarian aid is really aid for Hamas, that it goes direct to Hamas. That civilians are not starving.

Also fact-checked evidence to suggest the majority DO NOT support a two state solution:

Gallup polling conducted between July and September this year (before the latest war began) found just 24 per cent of Palestinians would support a two state solution.

That’s a massive collapse in support since 2012, when the figure was around 60 per cent.
Another pollster, the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, did manage to carry out a survey in November and December this year as the war unfolded. Those results found that 35 per cent of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip support a two state solution.

I’m scrolling through it too! Thought I’d share the link fast…

So if we contrast,
72% of Palestinians support Hamas, while under the incorrect belief they are moral and do not do atricties.

while
88% of Israelis support the IDF, presumably under the belief that IDF is the “most moral army in the world” (as is often stated).

What is the point you believe you are making?