ICJ: SA Genocide Case vs. ISR - part 2

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

1st thread is full - here comes part 2!

What does that mean?

Russia, China and Belarus are sending arms to Darfur to fuel the conflict. That's interesting because China and Russia are permanent members of the UN Security Council.
But hey-ho that doesn't matter because we hear that no-one needs " clean hands" to object to War Crimes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68302064

Netanyahu is the worst kind of authoritarian leader imo and we've been facilitating him.
I hope this group of "world leaders" have a plan

Russia China and Belarus are sending arms to Darfur

But I’m not Russian, Chinese or Belarussian.

But I do vote in my own country. So when I see my own country supporting a war criminal, that’s where I’ll focus my protest.

That's a bit of a reach isn't it? All I'm saying is that people are more aware of what is happening in Gaza as opposed to other places because the atrocities are being filmed and shared worldwide. It's also in the news a LOT.

@inkworks273
And thank goodness it is, because otherwise can you imagine the spin and whitewash that would be put on the emptying out of Gaza.

@Snowypeak But I do vote in my own country. So when I see my own country supporting a war criminal, that’s where I’ll focus my protest.

UK sells arms both to Sudan and Saudi Arabia to help the wars in Sudan and Yemen.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/war-in-sudan-has-killed-up-to-9000-people-in-six-months-says-un-aid-chief

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29319423

I trust you will be writing to your MP and make your feelings known about this?

@Balamsass neither is right but pointing out where atrocities are happening elsewhere will not suddenly make us forget about Israel. Whataboutery is not a point what is your point?

Certainly regarding Yemen, the history there is now segueing in to what is happening with Israel. Heavy weapons sold (profitably), leading to suffering, anger and radicalisation.

So all the more important to protest against the current war crimes.

Oh just get over yourself with this 'whataboutery' crap.

If anyone objects to UK selling arms to Israel then surely they should object to UK selling arms to be used in other conflicts?

And I don't see anyone protesting outside the Saudi or Sudanese Embassies?

@Balamsass

Yes, people should object to the country's involvement in selling arms used in human rights violations, oppression of vulnerable people, etc. I hope that people do start recognising the need to object to it on a wider basis. That doesn't change that, in this particular part of the website and in this particular thread, posters are discussing the concerns regarding the Israel-Gaza situation, nor does it diminish those concerns.

But it is whataboutery, you are on a thread about the SA case against Israel for genocide. The only reason you are posting this information is to take the focus off Israel or to point out that the UK is supporting other countries that are also carrying out atrocities. I don't know what other reason you would have? If it is to remind posters of other situations they need to be aware of thanks for the information.
If anyone objects to UK selling arms to Israel then surely they should object to UK selling arms to be used in other conflicts? How do you know they don't?
Telling us to look over there they are doing it too, doesn't absolve Israel

You can’t protest everywhere I guess.

This conflict resonates with me for three reasons.
One is that I know several Palestinian people personally (I don’t know anyone from Sudan or Yemen) and I have been amazed at the ridiculous attempts to portray them all as animals and vermin and scum while Netanyahu’s Israel is a gentle, kind desert bloom.

Two is that Israel’s settler violence has been going on for a very long time now. It’s about time it was finally properly protested and dealt with and this (along with the slaughter in Gaza) is the time.

Three is the massive and rapid death toll of children and that fact that I was watching young children on TV every night screaming for their dead parents. It’s true that when you see it it becomes extremely difficult to ignore.

No wonder Israel banned and killed so many journalists. I’m sure they hoped all of this would be buried, like so much of what has happened in wars elsewhere. But we live in the smartphone era now and the Palestinians, believe it or not, can operate a smartphone and have many friends and contacts internationally, and so those pesky inconvenient images keep on coming.

NONE of the permanent UN members have clean hands insifar as war crimes and crimes against humanity. All have genocides in their history that they have committed.

The problem with the veto power is that it is undemocratic, and that no one is superior in terms of human rights violations.

@Dulra "If anyone objects to UK selling arms to Israel then surely they should object to UK selling arms to be used in other conflicts?

How do you know they don't?"

No-one has come out and said that they don't support the Arms Trade.

No-one is starting any petitions against arms sales to other countries except.

BTW do all these people posting here bank with the Coop Bank? Because if they don't want to support the arms trade then they should. Otherwise they are being hypocrites.

Too much virtue signalling and not enough action IMO🙄

The authority is the Geneva Convention.

The EU would be ‘sticking their beak in’ if the U.K. were at current plausible risk of committing genocide.

@Balamsass
Well there’s action now so you must be happy about that. Better late than never!

We haven’t needed to because our governments have rightly called these conflicts for what they are - ethnic cleansing- and are taking steps to stop genocide/help victims. It is only with Gaza that our governments are arming and funding the aggressor, ignoring the victims apart from lip service and therefore are complicit in an unfolding possible genocide.

Russia has breached the Geneva Convention, yet it still sits as a Permanent Member of the UN Security Council.

IMO the Geneva Convention is a joke as it can't enforce anything and neither can the ICJ.

If we recall the ICJ said that Hamas should release all the captured Israeli hostages at once and unconditionally. I haven't see any movement on that front 🙄

It is just a pointless exchange, getting a dressing down by someone for voicing concern about what is happening in Palestine because you are not also pointing out every other human rights abuse happening elsewhere

"We haven’t needed to because our governments have rightly called these conflicts for what they are - ethnic cleansing- and are taking steps to stop genocide/help victims. "

So what is UK doing about the situation in Haiti, the South Caucasus and Mali?

Genuine question.

I suppose that - in this particular sense - the 75-year-old refugee issue does play a major role as a "recruiting" mechanism for pro-Palestinian activism: Lots of people know a Palestinian person (or five). And the reason for this is that there is a huge Palestinian diaspora.

The first Palestinian I ever personally met was a girl at a group I attended while still at school - the second was her cousin (whom I ended up marrying eventually). And everything since has been "yet another Palestinian at every corner" [to be fair: because I started moving in activist circles].

Personally, I quite like to look at it as some form of poetic justice: you expelled them - and they went all over the world, telling everyone what you had done and keep on doing!

I think people need to be consistent in their approach.

You either support human rights violations or you don't,

If you don't then they should all be given the same standing and condemnation, not pick and choose which are a more worthy cause.

Which camp are you in then?

1. You don't care about human rights violations at all (including those on 7/10, as you can't pick and choose)

2. you care about all human rights violations and are as horrified by Israel's actions in Gaza as 7/10?

I read that a Russian mercenary group, Wagner, is selling arms to the RSF in Darfur? That’s not the Russian government any more than Elon Musk is the US. I am guessing the rest of your list is similarly confused.🫤

Yes, no one needs clean hand to object to war crimes, because no one has clean hands. The whole point of IHL is all countries in the UN trying to do better and hold each other accountable.