ICJ: SA Genocide Case vs. ISR - part 2

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

1st thread is full - here comes part 2!

And also how there was so much outrage over 40 beheaded babies which was used to justify this war and now we have actual evidence and seen with our own eyes that at least 1 baby/child has been decapitated there's been silence and justification

And let's not waste time building a Strawman Argument! 🤦‍♂️

If you cannot address the substance of the ICJ's own ruling with the interpretation as outlined by the judges (one of whom has real life experience of genocide, I believe), then by all means move on.

Misrepresenting what anyone says isn't valid.

In my opinion the massacre last night contravened the genocide convention.

I'm allowed say that. It's my opinion. I'm not misrepresenting anything. You are.

Are you blaming the four judges I quoted?

If so, that's really not how it works. See, a whopping ten judges didn't disagree with them as no alt view was given and one differed slightly.

But the wording is solely down to the International Court of Justice itself, i.e., the fifteen.

Bombing a refugee camp breaks the genocide convention so none of what you're arguing is relevant @DownNative

Don't run before you can walk, @ConnieCounter! 🤷‍♂️

The full facts are not yet in.

But my point does stand since the original & widespread claim is that the ICJ ordered an immediate halt to military operations in Rafah. From the wording of the order itself as explained by four of the judges, that was not the case.

Just like the claim in January or so was the ICJ ruled that it was plausible genocide was happening. Until Joan O'Donoghue, the ICJ President at time of ruling, stated the court did not rule that.

The point is that people in general must tread far more carefully with what the ICJ, ICC or even domestic courts actually say on ANY issue at any time.

Some people will misinterpret due to incompetence, mistakes and so on. Others will do so for more deliberate, potentially nefarious reasons.

That's why the contrast in what the ICJ ordered in the South Africa v Israel case and the Ukraine v Russian Federation case is both valid and instructive.

I mean, they're not denying it so I'm not sure what new facts you're expecting.

Again, no matter how many times you repeat your point all of your post is irrelevant when Israel is breaking the genocide convention/committing genocide or whatever you want to it when they bomb civilians in refugee camps in designated safe zones.

As far as I understand it, the Israeli authorities are currently investigating the exact circumstances of what happened. They have said they struck outside the humanitarian area - see attachment.

Exact circumstances unclear so far. You are running before you can walk.

Again, no, my point stands whether or not Israel engage in genocide since the ORIGINAL claim was the ICJ ordered an immediate halt as you have to understand the Court's order at the time they wrote it under the circumstances as they understood it.

No immediate halt order was issued. You can compare the immediate halt the ICJ gave the Russian Federation. Explicit and without qualification.

On the contrary, ICJ order makes it clear Israel can continue military and any other action. Qualification - don't break the Genocide Convention.

Recall too that the ICJ has made NO such ruling that Israel has committed genocide. Do not expect any final definitive ruling in the case from ICJ for years to come. You have an opinion on that, but it's irrelevant as you are not one of the fifteen judges at the International Court of Justice.

Recall too that South Africa argued that the Court must order Israel to stop ALL military action AND withdraw completely from Gaza (not just Rafa). The Court did not agree with that from January to May 2024. ICJ has not ordered Israel to stop all military action completely, never mind withdraw from Gaza.

I fully expect to find your next post to misrepresent what I've said which would be a logical fallacy. 🤷‍♂️

That's three times you've told me I'm running before I can walk in the last hour or so. I'm m getting a little tired of that hearing that patronising phrase from you.

You're just making the same point again for no apparent reason so I've nothing further to add. I didn't make the claim you're talking about 🤷‍♀️

Crikey, are folks still arguing about semantics on here in the face of the indiscriminate mass slaughter of innocent children.

Aye....🤷‍♂️

Great post. Informative and factual. Thank you. It does not look like it was in the safe zone (to the degree that any area in or close to an active war zone can be characterised as safe).
I'll also add that none of this diminishes the loss of civilian life related to that strike.

Yes, I agree it doesn't diminish the loss of civilian lives.

So why is Netanyahu saying it was a mishap then?

Perhaps because a UK spy plane was flying overhead during the "operation", potentially implicating us? So the scope for him to brazen it out is limited.

https://x.com/ChrisHazzardSF/status/1795079673648496862

@Alwayslookonthe

"Great post. Informative and factual. Thank you. It does not look like it was in the safe zone (to the degree that any area in or close to an active war zone can be characterised as safe).
I'll also add that none of this diminishes the loss of civilian life related to that strike."

Here's a map of where the attack took place.

Note: it's a displacement camp in Tal as-Sultan, North west of Rafah city in a zone designated as a safe space. Area 2371 which was designated by the IDF as a humanitarian safe area.

You can see the camp circled in red.

yep..

"It is not a safe zone and therefore xyz"

The lack of compassion for human life is breathtaking.

Can’t see a thread about the ICC so posting this here as an example of the tactics the Israeli government have form for using.

I note the attempts to intimidate and blackmail.

Could this be one of the reasons that the US won’t take action against Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/israeli-spy-chief-icc-prosecutor-war-crimes-inquiry

I've just finished reading that chilling article and am about to post it on the ICC thread here

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5078969-israel-gaza-war-icc-prosecutor-seeks-arrest-warrants-for-netanyahu-and-hamas-leaders?

Thanks I couldn’t see it this morning.

It's on my 'i'm watching' list otherwise would be hard to find!

That's the location of the camp but not the strike itself?

Indeed, the IDF pin is itself firmly in 2372 which is not a designated safe zone. Considering there is much that's still unknown and much that has yet to be confirmed, you are running before you can walk.

It remains to be seen which of these maps is correct. We do not know enough at this point in time.

Interestingly it has also been translated as a 'mistake' rather than a 'mishap' in other publications

Interesting. I guess it will always be slightly ambiguous if he spoke in Hebrew.

But he's not saying that they hit a legitimate target and something outside of their control happened which caused the fire. They're saying they made a mistake, which is a very fucked up way of admitting that they bombed a refugee camp, as far as I can see.

@DownNative Given the title of the map is "Israel hits camps for displaced Palestinians" I'd say that's where the strikes were.

Is that the only line you know - "you are running before you can walk" because you've used that at least 4 times on this thread and it's offensive as you are coming across as insulting posters intelligence. As if you're the only one using critical thinking.

We may not be in possession of the full story but it really doesn't take a lot to see what has happened is beyond horrific, should never had happened and isn't a mistake and arguing semantics shows zero empathy or compassion but justification.