Ethnic cleansing

[beachcitygirl]

Netanyahu has confirmed that Gaza will be occupied by Israel when the bombing stops, with no role for the UN.

Now tell me how this isn't ethnic cleansing ?

x.com/beckettunite/status/1723323988963688959?s=46&t=CDaDBOo42AUxl1VZxDymlA

The Israeli government have evidenced their extreme barbarism.

Is it something you think they'll just abandon? Why?

This is patently not true if you watch the footage of the barriers being smashed and hordes of Gazans, including boys, swarming in to have some fun.

You don’t think it’s possible these Gazans were actually members of Hamas then?

@MercanDede Absolutely
@EasternStandard Don't you believe Israel's repeated statement that they will destroy Hamas?

Could you answer

Rather than another question

@MercanDede has given an answer. I’m not sure I agree, given the committed ideology of Hamas but it’s a starting point

There’s a lot of deflection. Hamas are still a problem that doesn’t go away even if Israel severs ties and has better defence

Completely agree. They are not even trying to hide the facts now.

Someone posted on another thread we judge this through our values rather than terrorist lens

They had a point. Hamas needs to be considered with their aims and boundaries not ours

I wouldn’t underestimate how extreme they are

@MercanDede has given an answer. I’m not sure I agree, given the committed ideology of Hamas but it’s a starting point.

The IRA was originally committed to uniting all of the island of Ireland under one Catholic Republic. Their aim was to ethnically cleanse all the Protestants who were viewed as British settlers/colonists or their descendants.

Over time, their ideology shifted. That’s what happens with any group; terrorist groups are no exception.

I'm not in Hamas, I don't know. The point could be applied to the Israeli government too.

Personally - no, I don't think they'll stop while Palestinians are oppressed by the IDF and harassed by settlers in the West Bank as a way of life. I also don't think the current situation Will help, at all, in alleviating tensions and bad feeling.

I don't see the Israeli government ever allowing Palestinians to live, free from oppression, on their own land. Even a blind man could see the land grab that is coming.

The actions of both are far beyond forgiveness now.

The IRA was originally committed to uniting all of the island of Ireland under one Catholic Republic. Their aim was to ethnically cleanse all the Protestants who were viewed as British settlers/colonists or their descendants.

Over time, their ideology shifted. That’s what happens with any group; terrorist groups are no exception

I know the Catholics and the Protestants were very much at odds but I don’t think the IRA were fulled by the same manic religious fever that motivates Hamas. They didn’t have suicide bombers, they didn’t think in terms of martyrs and holy wars. They were honestly quite a bit more rational.

Were you even alive during the Troubles? I think you either don’t know what it was like or have a case of rose tinted glasses going on.

100%

@Reallifelurker is a good post to read

The IRA may not have been but the Protestant 'side' terrorists (UVF UDA) were. Studies showed they were into more extreme religious views.

And groups become less dangerous when the reason people join them goes away, even if the funding and interests of others remain. The IDF are currently recruiting more effectively for Hamas than anyone else could.

The IRA didn’t have martyrs’? You really know not of what you speak
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/remembering-the-scariff-martyrs-1.4680779

If it’s down to ‘they’ll fade away’ I’d want more realism from whoever is making decisions on safety and risk

The Taliban is probably worth looking at for not fading away

How on earth do you think they will be better off under Israeli occupation? The Israelis don't respect Palestinians as equals. That's such a sad naive belief.

I'd like more realism than "let's kill thousands of children, that'll stop people joining terrorist groups". FFS.

groups become less dangerous when the reason people join them goes away

Yes, this is key. Once the reason for the existence of the IRA was resolved, it faded away. I see no reason why the same could not hold true for Hamas if hostilities ended and UN peacekeepers oversaw a political solution. We are all human and I think lessons can be applied from history to the current situation. It is at least worth giving it a chance. The Israeli idea of yet more military occupation, yet more brutal oppression isn’t a method that has ever been successful anywhere at anytime on any human population to erase terrorism.

It’s still not dealing with the long term issue. Even with the ‘FFS’

Hinging it all on the hope Hamas will ‘fade away’ isn’t realistic

So if they don’t, what is that like?

Many have said look at after, and what happens, it’s not a poor question it’s an advisable one

It’s laughable when Israel whine ‘oh but Hamas want to destroy us’, with what exactly? Yet Israel are capable of destroying Palestinian’s and are doing so and getting away with it. It’s hoodwinking at its finest.

It’s realism as there is precedent.

The Taliban weren’t the terrorists in Afghanistan though.
They are a repressive government that was toppled by the USA hunting terrorists hiding out there. Once the US ended its occupation. They took their country back.

It’s not realistic to think that all legitimate governments are good or democratic or value human rights. Repressive dictatorships, and autocratic governments exist. Russia, Iran, China, N Korea are a few examples.

Of course it’s realistic because we have precedent. It’s not like it’s never happened in the history of humankind. It’s a tried and tested option.

What is your answer then??

I don’t think the plan includes Palestinians. They are to be bombed or made refugees in other countries first.
That’s certainly the logical conclusion from what has happened so far.

What are you wanting here for Hamas

Continued governance too?

If not how do you see then removed and then what risk do they pose?

The IRA didn’t have martyrs’? You really know not of what you speak

I didn’t mean martyrs as in killed-by-the-enemy I meant it as in-sacrifice-yourself (or others) our-reward-will-be-in-heaven.

Given that it was the belief that Hamas had mellowed, and were more interested in their economy than fighting, that gave them the opportunity to carry out their attack it would be very silly to think in terms of them “fading away”.