The people that don't call those that support Hamas

[Trulywonderful]

Such a nice guy with a good morals obviously. What more do you want from a barrister or law firm that hasn't spoken out on this

(Sarcasm)

To whom do you speak. I haven't noticed anyone lumping all Palestinians together. Unless I have missed something on this thread. Sorry can't be bothered to scroll back and read. Could you be more specific

Yes I agree with you

A lot of agenda and narrative

I personally an not impressed with anyone who is 100% pro either side of this conflict. They tend to be rather blinkered

The common aim we should all have is some semblance of peace whatever that looks like.

and one of the problems with history is who the victors decide what the "truth" is.

I agree, no side is perfect. We should just try to be fair and honest, and not sling mud to undermine the other side, just because we have run out arguments to make our case or we don't like the support or sympathy the other side is attracting.

Discourse

Yes most historical discourse was written by white western middle or upper class men

We will have to see in the digital age who tell history and how this time

True, here is some reflections on the points of who may "write" history in the digital age:

In the evolving landscape of historical storytelling, AI emerges as a potent ally. Its potential lies in adeptly navigating data intricacies, conducting precise pattern recognition, and aiding in the synthesis of historical narratives. However, the human touch, indispensable in the realm of interpretative prowess and ethical discernment, remains an irreplaceable element.

The optimal strategy, echoing the principles of operational collaboration, is to forge a synergistic alliance between AI and human capabilities. AI, with its computational efficiency, serves as a force multiplier for data analysis and pattern identification. On the other front, human agents bring to the table a depth of interpretative skills and ethical considerations that enhance the narrative's authenticity and resonance.

In the not-so-distant future, the fusion of AI's analytical acumen and human discernment may yield the most comprehensive historical narratives. This collaborative approach, akin to joint intelligence operations, ensures a seamless amalgamation of computational precision and human intuition, resulting in narratives that resonate authentically with the intricacies of historical events.

My reply was to this earlier post, sorry I am new member, didn't know how to quote the post..saw a documentary made about a year ago where progressive lesbian and gay men in America were asked for their views on the Israeli/ Palestine conflict. All supported Palestine. They were then shown footage of interviews with Palestinians who were asked their views of gay men and their responses varied from, they should be imprisoned / beaten / murdered and how it is understandable for a father to honor kill his gay son. A gay Palestinian man ( identity hidden) spoke about how they are beaten and raped by police before being imprisoned.

Okay, I shall try to go with the even shorter version: "Intifada" means "shake off the oppressor, by any means necessary" - it can be but need not necessarily be by violent means! It is, inherently, a reactive as opposed to proactive term: you cannot "shake off" when there is nobody sitting on your neck, threatening to cut off your breathing!

But also: "Intifada" is a word that is a lot like "toff"! Yes, you can take "toff" to simply mean "rich person" and/or "person with class privilege" - but that does quite a poor job of explaining what "toff" really means, I would have guessed!? That would be because "toff" is a word that means not only "what it says on the tin" but also a word that says "but I come with an entire rattail of assumptions and implications - for starters: "we Brits still practice a system of social class that to most other Europeans seems wird and unintelligible", "our accents depend on our social class [FWIW: a concept quite alient to the rest of Europe - never mind the rest of the world!]", "toff is a politically loaded term - but people in Czechia are in a rather poor position to grasp it"!

"Intifada" is, basically, a word whose meaning is heavily loaded with specific cultural context!

Now, go ahead and ask me about "sumud" ("staying put"), and how this pertains to "Gazans will NOT go to Egypt" ... seeing as I am already on a mission to poorly explain words!

Honestly can no one see, the bad guys are the ones who went into a festival and raped, abused and kidnapped civilians with more brutality than I’ve ever witnessed. Did you not see the bloodied baby car seats. It’s barbaric and completely inexcusable. But hey, they’re Jews so fair game right? The antisemitism on here is vile, look the final solution and see where your politics lie.

There are two types of bad guys. One type are those you’re saying. The other guys are the ones that have been doing similar actions for years in Palestine without any impunity and that now are killing thousands of innocent civilians

There is no excuse for Hamas atrocities. I condemn them in strongest terms. But the way Israeli government has treated palestinians, USA foreign policy unfairly siding with Israel has lead to this hatred and the atrocities were committed to hurt the Israeli government maybe to get reaction from them or Hamas really believed they would be able to exchange the hostages with six thousand plus palestinians in Israeli prisons. Israel has refused to have any dialogue over the years with Hamas the " terrorists" , when there is no meaningful dialogue, it leads to desperation and tragedy or " terrorist" incident such as this. No excuses. But each side to blame. And civilians suffer the most in this.

I haven’t seen one post, not even one post that says that Hamas are a great bunch of lads. I think what Hamas did was horrendous AND I think the current Israeli government are extreme and their actions are disgusting and disproportionate. I don’t see a positive end goal in the decimation of Gaza - for either Israelis nor Palestinians. My politics lie in human rights. All lives are equal. Bodies are bodies at the end of the day.

@HeidiInTheBigCity I miss this kindly (and I really do) but did I ask? Or did someone ask? Or say I struggled with nuanced words? I just feel this is a bit left field....

That's why I said did I miss something?

Anyone - sensible - with an interest in world affairs and UK politics will recognise the antisemitism that’s bursting out on MN.

There are anti-Israel posters who are clearly obsessed with Israel, as in being single-cause fanatics. That level of fixation on Israel is a big neon sign saying “there are plenty of causes to follow, but I follow this one because I distrust and dislike Jews and therefore I hate their homeland”.

It’s obvious. It’s obvious in the student societies, the branch meetings and motions of left-wing political parties, and among the pamphleteers, placard carriers and flag wavers. And it’s obvious on here too.

I have no hostilies towards Jewish people. A criticism of Israel is not criticism of Jews. There are jewish people who have been protesting about Israel, do they dislike their fellow Jews? This is a difficult time for Jews, Muslims and others, very emotive subject, please do not feel personally attacked. We are just expressing our thoughts and listening to yours also.

It’s probably because the current Israeli government is so right wing now. At one point Israel was very much seen as this plucky democratic state who was socialist at heart. This impression has changed as the administration has moved more towards the right. They are also religious fanatics now.

The crazy thing is that so many pro Palestine supporters are left wing. Good luck being gay or trans with hammas. Iran supports them, they are known the world over for tolerance and understanding, oh shit, no they’re not, they have morality police murdering those who don’t wear a head covering.

Agree and also good luck being a palestinian in apartheid Israel .

Because being gay in a country whose minsters belongs to far right political teams is easy peasy
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63780509.amp

Yes indeed. I couldn’t be bothered to respond to most of the anecdotal or made-up drivel - along with Islamophobia and thinly-disguised homophobia - on this thread.

Nope you didn't ask and neither did anyone else. I thought the poster had come on the wrong thread. Everyone here seems pretty good with their understanding of what various words mean in certain contexts. Even if they don't agree on which side they are on or better to not take 100% one side.

I can only assume poster has had a drink or two today

The threads with that kind of stuff got deleted at the beginning. There has still been some posters implying it heavily. Mumsnet delete their post when they have said it outright. Scroll back through old threads. You will see it.

Last few days have actually been better. I think some of the biggest idiots have either got banned or got bored here and found some where else to say nasty stuff

You have no idea what the thread is about have you and definitely have not read it!

Seriously tell us you just jump on a thread and spouting rubbish why don't you

ThT is very interesting

Thanks