The people that don't call those that support Hamas

[Trulywonderful]

Such a nice guy with a good morals obviously. What more do you want from a barrister or law firm that hasn't spoken out on this

(Sarcasm)

Goodness I hadn't heard about that one

Seriously there is so much ignorance about what is at the core of all this. The belief system that exsteme Islamics and at least half the Free Palestine supporters have. The Jew hate isn't even hidden that well. They have made horrific public statements about all Jews and not just Israeli ones. They give a fat zero about innocent people and that doesn't matter if Jew or Arab. The whole thing for them is about the cause. The rest of the supporters are just ignorant beyond what one would think possible. They either haven't bothered to find out real facts or are turning a blind eye in order to make themselves seem more fashionable on social media.

I have a friend, non-Jewish, who spent a year on a kibbutz, and it changed his life profoundly. He was headed for a lucrative management consultant job in the City but instead he became an aid worker. The fact that kibbutzes embody a lot of progressive, liberal and collective values but were particularly targeted by violent, intolerant religious fanatics seems to have passed the Queers/Feminists for Palestine lot behind.

Thank you. Sincerely.

For me the ask is to speak up. I'm exhausted by Mumsnet at the moment. I keep vowing to stay away and then I get sucked back in as I feel I have some kind of duty to out posts that are blatantly anti semitic.

I'm not talking about posts that call out Israel, but posts about Jews or "the Jews". Posts that are so offensive I can't actually believe I'm reading them on what I thought was a relatively benign platform. I look around in real life now and I think, is this really what people think? It actually makes me scared.

There are some amazing non Jewish people on here who have been fantastic in their support. I wish I could thank them individually. They have no idea how much it means.

Teach your children and anyone else you know what tropes and Jew hate looks like. The more hidden ways Jew haters use language to spread antisemitism. That it is not OK to blame all Jews for anything the Israeli government do.

Call out Jew hate and report it if you see it in real life or online. Especially in your own workplace. Some Jews don't always feel they will be believed if they do it themselves. I know people get confused about the difference between critics of the Israeli government and all that. So if you are not sure that one you can hold back on if you find it too complicated. However other antisemitism please call it out. No difference that people would any other form of racism.

Lastly when it comes to the conflict learn how to spot fake or misleading information, social media and news stories. Also remember this is a difficult conflict and early information is often not reliable. We need to wait at least a few hours if not days after something happens for reporting to be more accurate. This helps to stop the spread of false or unverified claims.

I agree it is heart warming when non Jews speak up and show kindness

Sadly I think at the moment a lot of Jews in the UK don't expect this to happen and feel on their own

My Muslim friend gave me a big box of chocolates the other day. She feels really bad about the stuff on social media at the moment and felt the need to make sure I knew she doesn't feel that way too.

Thanks @Londonmummer and @Trulywonderful . I have been posting on threads on this subject, (I'm a continually name changer).

Its a good point point to raise my children to spot more insidious and 'indirect' forms of anti-Semitism. I think this atrocity has shown just how many people, who would otherwise consider themselves proudly anti-racist, have unconsciously absorbed an anti-Semitic worldview without even realising it.

The level of ignorance is astonishing. It's like that "Queers for Palestine" banner - dear lord, inform yourselves!

Yes the Queers for Palestine one had even people that know very little about the issues turning their head sideways. You don't have to be an expert to realise a problem with that idea.

There is stupid then there is that level of stupid. Plus a lot of ignoring your own core moral beliefs

I'd love to do a straw poll on the ages of people posting. Maybe MN can provide these statistics one day for historical purposes. I can sort of imagine myself 20 years ago trotting out the unreflected doctrine. (That doesn't make it any less painful to read! 😁) Of course, it's quite possible that people generally are not interested in critical appraisal of information.

Isn't it funny, the supporters of Hamas on these threads being critical of Netanyahu's regime as "fascist" - I do wonder how they classify jihadism.

Me too.

The way some Western very left supporters for Hamas/Iran always remains me of this. You have to watch it all the way through but Tim sums up these people nicely.

My now 17 year old sent it to me a couple of years ago. I realised then that I had done a very good job raising him.

Thank you, @Trulywonderful - I'll watch that.
Someone sent me a video from a university Freshers' Fayre, and a young woman on the Palestinian Society stall. A man questioned her about some of the slogans on the posters- apartheid, ethnic cleansing etc
Turned out he was Israeli - and Arab Muslim! He told her what his rights were in Israel and I'm going to say it was a surprise to her. She certainly got an education that day.

I am reporting as much as I can on here but the Jew hate is real. It's been sickening. Whatever you try and say is shouted down. It's been a real education on here and not in a good way.
Thanks to all that 'bring up the rear' so you don't feel alone.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy2IZa4OCA7/?igshid=Y2NkYjk0MDhjYg==
then you have these disgusting sick people

@Rubbishagain whatever you are attempting to post has been removed.

That's good, @Trulywonderful - bubbles of outrage!

Sorry I make it a general thing to not do Instagram or look at it, that and Tiktok.

The psychology and politics of both no matter what the subject isn't something I can justify in my old head.

Okay, I will take the bait! (But: someone else: please "provide cover" - I realise what I am doing: going in, trying to explain language that will seem alien to most readers!). For the sake of transparency: I am also, broadly speaking, what most people would describe as "pro-Palestinian", and, narrowly speaking: "not a friend of Hamas", "not a friend of the PA" ... also: "pro humanity, always!". I am a philosophical so-called "libertarian socialist" (read: basically an anarchist, but I like people, despite it all!) who also happens to be a corporate executive for a living (because I quite enjoy doing the work I do!).

I am posting a lengthy preface on the grounds that "this sort of stuff matters when everyone lies!". You may choose not to believe me - and that is okay! But you should ask the same amount of honesty about "who are you, and where do you stand?" from anyone whom you WILL believe!

"Intifada" (Arabic: انتفاضة) is an Arabic word that - in essence - means "to be shaking", or "tremor" - but: etymologically, it is also derived from notions of "shaking off", and "getting rid of". Colloquially speaking, "Intifada" in the modern sense, may be taken to mean "uprising".

While primarily associated with the concept of Palestinian resistance to occupation nowadays, "Intifada" is not, actually, an originally Palestinian term. Its first documented use dates back to a communist uprising in Iraq back in the 1950s. It was popularised during the 1st and, subsequently 2nd "Palestinian Intifada" that saw everything from "just unarmed kids, throwing stones at tanks" to "suicide bombers blowing themselves up in Tel Aviv coffee shops"

Things the word "Intifada" DOES mean, within a modern context are: "Stand up, rise up! Resist the oppressor by - depending on your values and means! violent or non-violent measures!"

Things the word "Intifada" does NOT mean: "kill them all, out of principle!", "for Islamist supremacism!", "we shall kill all white people!", [insert your own horrific vision of whatever you have read at the DM or whatnot]!

Management summary: "Intifada is an Arabic word that refers to the - yes, including violently so, but NOT ONLY! - getting rid of an oppressor". It is inherently re-active, rather than pro-active in that it is not a word that implies unprovoked aggression. But it also IS very much revolutionary!

So there ...

Now: someone please have my back as I leant far out of the window in a (necessarily imperfect) attempt to try and explain what "intifada" means (and may have made mistakes in the process)!

Yeah the ridiculousness of the left wing supporting the rape and torture of innocents because they don’t count (they’re only Jews) it’s disgusting. Forgetting that most Palestinians would want gay people burned alive, how many Palestinians don’t want the eradication of Jews or the eradication of gays and trans

No idea why you wrote all that when you basically mean it is a matter of context. An idea most the rest of us adults have understood for a very long time.

Therefore we do understand the context in which half the pro paletine protesters mean their own words . I think maybe it is yourself that doesn't or is in some kind of drive to mislead others.

There are elements in every society that have these views. A lot of people in the west held these views historically. I could go an ask an orthodox jewish person of their views on gay and lesbians and high chance I will get a unsavory opinion. I am not going to promote that as opinion all the Jewish people. There are attempts on both side to set a narrative that the other is a savage and to mould people's opinions.

Please don't lump all palestinians together. In every society there are people who hold controversial views. We can't say they the whole nation is like this. Please be just and fair rather than trying to malign all palestinians because it suits your narrative.

@HeidiInTheBigCity I feel like I have missed something.....

Of course. It's when they run a society in a totalitarian way, and those views become the law, then it's a problem.