What do you understand from the chant 'Free Palestine'?

[piddocktrumperiness]

Just that really. I have seen there have been many marches these last few days where people in solidarity with Palestinians chant 'Free Palestine'
Now I understand that as Free Palestine from the occupation; West Bank vs Settlers, military rule, and blockades in Gaza.
I have asked a Palestinian friend and a Lebanese neighbour what they think it means and they confirmed what I thought.

But the chant is triggering many others to believe it is anti Semitic or that it means something else and it's passing me as to what else it could mean.

Death to all Arabs is undoubtedly an abhorrent call to genocide, I agree.

It’s not quite the same though, as it’s so very very blatantly that, so not really open to interpretation in the same way as ‘from the river to the sea’.

You clearly see it as a ‘star-spangled banner’ type song. Which is fine of course, sing away. I certainly am not trying to stop you.

Many don’t, because Israel is in between the river jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, so they see it as call to eradicate Israel. Wiping it off the map etc. So it has connotations that ‘from sea to shining sea’ doesn’t, as the USA covers all the land from sea to sea. It’s not as clear cut as either of your examples, which is why I said I’d err on the side of caution.

But I’m sure we’re both boring everyone now, with this back and forth and going in circles.

I’m going to have another look on the ‘have some pride in yourself thread’, it’s quite amusing 😊

@icechocs I’m sorry you find it tiresome but perhaps you need to do some reading. Jews have been persecuted since around 605BC with antisemitism embraced by every one from the Roman Empire, Christians and of course the Middle East. And obviously the Holocaust was by far the biggest genocide in history in terms of casualties.

The countries that officially recognise the Armenian genocide are in the minority. Israel has not officially recognised it but then nor have Australia, much of Africa and of course the British government!

I assume you are just as exercised by the current persecution of groups such as the Uighurs and the Kurds as you are by the plight of the Palestinians.

@icechocs even if you find it 'tiresome' maybe it's an 'unpleasant' thought to keep to yourself and not broadcast on the internet - particularly when so many people are so distressed

Can I just say thank you to all of the posters on this and other threads who tirelessly (and politely) deconstruct so many false statements and anti Semitic narrative. You women are doing so well to unpick this nonsense on thread after thread. Thank you

@TopicalNameChange I’m not Jewish but I’ve been absolutely sickened by the anti semitism that has emerged in the past few weeks. But what has really struck me is how ignorant some of the pro Palestinian supporters are of basic facts. I guess that’s what happens when you get your news from Social Media.

Only have browse MN for an hour or so to realise there are many people who are less educated and/or less intelligent - whilst it's not a perfect sample it's a reflection of the population. By and large a relatively dis-enfranchised group of people who get there voice heard via SM and ?perhaps more likely to identify with the perceived 'under-dog'

LOL

People I disagree with = stupid, inferior underdogs of society.

Lol, lol, lol

I am upset by the persecution of any ethnic groups by anyone.
I am as upset at the plight of the Palestinians as I would be if it were anyone else, not more so.

Why do you think the Armenian genocide which saw a third of its population killed has not been recognised by many countries? Why has Britain not acknowledged it?
Do you not think that perhaps it is because it is a country and population which is of little strategic importance and no economic importance to the powers of the world, and that maintaining relations with certain other countries that are more beneficial to them is seen as important?
In many other countries this is taught, alongside photographic evidence, in the history books at school for every child to see.
Armenians were slaughtered in all possible ways which I won't go into but included being gassed for example. No different to the Jews.

I understand that the persecution of the Jews is as old as time. I also believe in generational trauma and how it can be passed throughout history.

I still feel that while we obviously acknowledge that the Holocaust was an absolute tragedy, by putting it on a level above any other tragedy it means that psychologically any debate, confrontation is seen as different and a special case and is restricted.
I think this is unhelpful when it comes to moving forward.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cy5QdRcoOEU/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
maybe free Palestine means not having cages built around them by illegal settlers

@Hippyhippybake as a Jew it's really difficult for me to engage with, and I am full of admiration for the women on these threads who do.

@icechocs what happened to the Armenians was beyond horrific , I once saw a small photographic exhibition recording their slaughter and I wish I hadn’t to be honest as those images have haunted me. I would find someone referring to hearing about what happened to the Armenians as “tiresome” deeply offensive.

@TopicalNameChange I wish there was a way people could show their solidarity with British Jews that doesn’t involve travelling to London.

I have an hgv licence so know all about the blind spots. The four zones relate to overtaking and being too close to an hgv either at the side or behind, hence the specific dangers of tailgating an hgv or a cyclist being immediately beside them. It’s hard to see a slip road being that physically close to a motorway that traffic on it is invisible for the duration particularly as the hgv will be gaining in speed. In any case the onus is obviously on the hgv driver to check and give priority.

Oops - wrong thread 🙈

Thanks for replying.

I apologise for using the word tiresome. It was probably out of frustration at the whole situation which I understand isn't an excuse, but what I probably should have said is "problematic".

I absolutely wasn't referring to discussion around the Holocaust as tiresome. I know full well the importance , but I was replying to a pp and making a point about how setting aside the Holocaust as something "other" than any other genocide around the world is problematic. It is this consideration that a "superior evil" took place that I have a problem with. Not because I want to diminish in any way the evil that did occur, but that to believe that this was something so different gives the impression that it never happened prior, which is untrue, and can never happen again, also untrue.

I understand that it is also probably set apart due to the fact of it happening in the heart of Europe so near to us and the connection to the war and the countries that took part.

I know that there has been anti -semitism throughout history, and is on going throughout the world, and this is something that needs to be continually spoken about, but if we "other" the event holocaust, I don't think we are doing any favours to anyone because relationships between people are stronger when they feel free to criticise one another openly when they think something is wrong.

Being who?

@Teddleshon thank you. I think that, as like most things, we show solidarity to others by listening to them and trying to understand. There is a lot of that on this thread, and I appreciate it x

@icechocs I may have misunderstood your post, and apologies if so, but why do Jews need to discuss other forms of hatred when talking about their own experiences? So if I say my grandparents were survivors, and that generational trauma is a thing for me and my people, that's just something we carry. It doesn't mean other atrocities matter less, but I feel the atrocities committed against my family more deeply. That's human and normal.

It's like you if you say that, as a woman, sexual discrimination and violence has a huge impact on your life, and then being expected to add other forms of violence also exist and are also really bad.

The Palestinian Territories are literally called ‘ Occupied Palestinian Territories’ - so freedom from the jackboot of the Israeli government.

@Hippyhippybake

"I have no time for these people who mindlessly chant something so deeply offensive to the most persecuted minority group on earth."

Maybe River to Sea/Free Palestine means Palestinians want to be free to live in their homes, tend to their olive trees, raise their children in their ancestral lands, work, play, grow, enjoy life, as everyone else does, and not be caged, controlled, killed or imprisoned at will. Surely, how can calling for freedom hurt?

I dont know how people can put "we want Israel and Israelis to be safe" and "why are people calling for Palestinians to be able to breathe freely" in the same sentence. Hypocrisy.

This can’t happen for Palestinians unless the State Of Israel no longer exists as “from the river to the sea” refers to Israel’s lands. You must know this.

I’ve been absolutely staggered to read that so many posters seem to be under the impression that the Jews simply came along and kicked Palestinians out of their country. That is not what happened.

There is literally a British mandate that "gives" Palestine to the Jews to make a homeland, giving them authority to go in, be welcomed by Palestinians, and kick them out of their homes. It happened then, it happens now by settlers.

And of course Palestinians can live in peace if they get rid of Hamas and stop attacking Israel.

It’s particularly devastating that so many of the Israeli’s who were murdered and abducted on the 7th October were actively helping Gazans and wanted peace. I was struck by the footage of the funeral of one of the slaughtered Israeli children which had a Yusuf Islam song playing as the coffin was lowered.

The west has lost its mind when NYU students are chanting “we can’t wait for the caliphate” and “queers for Palestine” is a thing. I can’t imagine what those brave female protestors in Iran make of it all, I just dread to think as it must really destroy their hopes of achieving equality.

I've skimmed the thread but my reply to the OP is that;

"Free" could mean "able to exercise rights" (eg freedom of speech) or "not imprisoned" (eg "Free Nelson Mandela!") or "not ruled by anyone else" (eg "Free City")

"Palestine" could mean "Gaza and the West Bank" or "the whole geographical area once known as Palestine"

I genuinely believe that people chanting it could be using pretty much any combination of those. Some are much more problematic than others.