Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

What do you understand from the chant 'Free Palestine'?

235 replies

piddocktrumperiness · 23/10/2023 08:31

Just that really. I have seen there have been many marches these last few days where people in solidarity with Palestinians chant 'Free Palestine'
Now I understand that as Free Palestine from the occupation; West Bank vs Settlers, military rule, and blockades in Gaza.
I have asked a Palestinian friend and a Lebanese neighbour what they think it means and they confirmed what I thought.

But the chant is triggering many others to believe it is anti Semitic or that it means something else and it's passing me as to what else it could mean.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Teddleshon · 27/10/2023 19:53

The Jews certainly know all about being wrenched from their ancestral homelands.

piddocktrumperiness · 27/10/2023 21:30

@Teddleshon I'm not sure what you mean by this being a new version of apartheid?

I also don't understand how having Arab Israelis in govt (which by the way most of Palestinians in the WB and Gaza cannot be a part of) negates the segregation practices of the govt.

Further, the segregation in Hebron is a concentrated example of the oppression faced by Palestinians on a daily basis across the WB. The massacre in 1994 fuelled violence on both sides, so the military being present is not to stop the violence per se, it is there for the protection of the Jewish settlers.

There are 3, maybe 4 categories of Palestinians that people seem to forget:
1- Arab Israelis
2- West Bank Palestinians
3- Palestinians in Gaza
4- The Palestinians in the diaspora.

So saying something like "Palestinians should get rid of Hamas and then everything will be hunky dory" is too vague- West Bank Palestinians are not governed by Hamas yet are subjugated to the oppression by settlers on a regular basis.

OP posts:
ChickHenLittle · 27/10/2023 21:52

Teddleshon · 27/10/2023 19:26

I’m not heartless at all but I think the best and probably only way forward for the Palestinian people is to get out from under the yoke of a terrorist organisation. If they continue with Hamas in charge the future looks truly terrifying for them.

I don't think their future looks good when a far right-wing government is ordering persistent air strikes and an imminent ground invasion on their land.

icechocs · 28/10/2023 10:36

TopicalNameChange · 27/10/2023 13:27

@icechocs I may have misunderstood your post, and apologies if so, but why do Jews need to discuss other forms of hatred when talking about their own experiences? So if I say my grandparents were survivors, and that generational trauma is a thing for me and my people, that's just something we carry. It doesn't mean other atrocities matter less, but I feel the atrocities committed against my family more deeply. That's human and normal.

It's like you if you say that, as a woman, sexual discrimination and violence has a huge impact on your life, and then being expected to add other forms of violence also exist and are also really bad.

Thanks for your reply.
I realise this thread isn't really about the point I was making, but I would like to try and clarify my point seeing as my first comment was deleted so I obviously expressed myself in a way that wasn't clear.
I fully expect and agree that Jews should consider what happened in the Holocaust to be the focus for them and wouldn't expect them to do otherwise. It's only natural. I presume though that as individuals they can understand about other atrocities if they know about them, even though it hasn't effected them, no more or less than anyone else.
My point was about how as nations, so not directed at any one community in particular, for political and economic reasons we are only actively informed about some things that are happening and have happened in the world. By choosing to not actively inform people about other world history, we are led to believe in a sort of hierarchy of atrocities, and dangerously believe that some things could never repeat themselves. I certainly don't know enough about things.
This in no way is dismissing of any tragedy, but in my opinion, by singling out the Holocaust so much , it can lead to a differing of expectations of different nations and of people, even involuntarily.
I myself can acknowledge that the fact that Israel hasn't recognised my people's genocide as in some way worse and more hurtful than any other random nation openly not recognising it. After thinking about it though I realise that this is wrong, because every state always does only what is in its own interest, no exceptions.

I haven't openly expressed support for any one side in this current situation. I understand that for Jews around the world seeing the continuous open support for Palestine would probably be difficult. I presume because even if people state that their actions are not anti- Semitic, and I believe for the majority this will be true I completely understand that Jews will find it extremely difficult to believe this, given that history has taught them differently. I think that the general population will not understand this at all because they have not experienced generational trauma and can't understand.

Londiniumrocks · 28/10/2023 18:45

Israel is running an apartheid system, but for some reason something that we all protested against in South Africa is supported in the Middle East…

bness · 28/10/2023 18:47

Londiniumrocks · 28/10/2023 18:45

Israel is running an apartheid system, but for some reason something that we all protested against in South Africa is supported in the Middle East…

Because it's labelled as self defense 🙄

Trulywonderful · 28/10/2023 21:08

I think this news article sums up my own beliefs nicely:

The UK is a "permissive environment" for antisemitism, a Home Office adviser has said.

Writing in The Times, Commissioner for Countering Extremism Robin Simcox said a good test of a society's health was how it treated its Jews - and, by this metric, the UK was "very sick indeed".

Security minister Tom Tugendhat denied this, arguing threats to any community were taken "extremely seriously".

Police have recorded a steep rise in antisemitic incidents since 7 October.

On that date, Palestinian militant group Hamas launched a series of attacks on Israel, killing more than 1,400 people and taking more than 200 hostages.

More than 3,000 people have been killed in Gaza since Israel launched retaliatory air strikes, and a ground offensive is expected.

In his Times article, Mr Simcox said tens of thousands of British citizens had gone online and taken to the streets to voice support for "Palestinian resistance".

He accused them of "successfully exploiting one of our proudest British values - free expression - to pursue a shameful extremist agenda, the normalisation and promotion of antisemitism", adding that this must be a "wake-up call for all decent people".

Mr Simcox argued the UK was paying the price for a "three-decade long failed policy mix of mass migration and multiculturalism".

The country was one of the world's most successful multi-ethnic democracies, but that relied on "a basic level of integration", he said.

Asked about the comments, Mr Tugendhat told Times Radio he did not agree.

"You just have to look at the response over the last 10 days - the way the prime minister, the home secretary, and I and many others have been reaching out to the Jewish community, making sure policing is appropriate... to give reassurance.

"The way in which we've been engaging as well with the Muslim community, some of whom are feeling also vulnerable at this time, feeling stigmatised."

He also emphasised that freedom of speech was "absolutely fundamental" to democracy, calling it "the basis in fact of every other liberty".

Mr Tugendhat drew a distinction between "perfectly legitimate" support for Palestinians and the promotion of Hamas, a banned terrorist group in the UK, which he said should result in arrests.

He also disputed the suggestion that multiculturalism had failed, describing the UK as having "phenomenal success in bringing people together".

"Many people speak different languages at home, identify with different cultures, and are able to mix all of them extremely effectively," he said.

In an interview with BBC Newsnight, Mr Simcox said the threat from extremism in the UK was "extremely disturbing... at the moment" and had "got much worse" since the Hamas attacks.

Things felt "tenser, the stakes feel higher", he said, adding that he had been "alarmed" by the number of people who had come out on to the streets.

He said the government had "got better" in countering extremism in the past couple of years, but the risk posed by Hamas and Iranian networks in the UK had been "a bit of a blindspot".

Previously Hamas "maybe… wasn't viewed as being quite as pressing a security threat to the UK as we may now view it in the wake of what's happened in Israel," he added.

Mr Simcox said he was "out of patience" with what he described as "cultural timidity" in tackling radical ideology in Britain - and he called for an "an honest conversation about where the terrorist threats and extremist threats are in this country".

"Because just like every terrorist atrocity, 9/11, 7/7, Manchester Arena, I mean take your pick, Charlie Hebdo, memories fade, anger fades, outrage fades and inertia creeps in and we kind of revert to the status quo.

"I can tell you from my point of view that I have no intention of letting what happened in Israel, the impact it has on UK communities, drop."

Trulywonderful · 28/10/2023 21:14

Oh and this as well reported today:

"Iran 'hijacking Pro-Palestinian protests in the UK': Police warn agents are stoking unrest with more than 100,000 set to descend on London today"

ChickHenLittle · 28/10/2023 22:03

Trulywonderful · 28/10/2023 21:14

Oh and this as well reported today:

"Iran 'hijacking Pro-Palestinian protests in the UK': Police warn agents are stoking unrest with more than 100,000 set to descend on London today"

This has already been debunked on another thread.

Trulywonderful · 29/10/2023 01:28

ChickHenLittle · 28/10/2023 22:03

This has already been debunked on another thread.

How was it debunked have the police said it isn't true?

I have not yet seen anything proving or disproving this report

Can you give me a link ? I would be interested

New posts on this thread. Refresh page