Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

The Hilltop Youth exist.

Price tag attacks happen.

Settlers in the video voiced their extreme views. One said he couldn't condemn such acts.

It's there to see. Or were they all actors?

It's honestly now scary that it's somehow being implied it isn't true.

If some posters could discuss the situation without resorting to antisemitic tropes and language, and antisemitic dog whistles, that would be great.

I am stunned too. I can’t believe Israel is being allowed to get away with this and the media, insteading of challenging them, is letting them get away with war crimes.

There are, if course, faults on both sides. But anyone with only the slightest knowledge of history knows that there have been atrocities committed in warfare for as long as man has been alive. In the Middle East specifically, this is just the next phase in a conflict that has lasted thousands of years. Whilst the methods/tactics will generally cause shock, it is precisely BECAUSE it is humans who fight wars that these things happen. We would be naive to think that there is anything different here, or that most humans wouldn't do it - humans are nothing special.

Where is the antisemitism? Criticism of Israeli government? Yes.
Please, as I have now asked countless times, quote the anti-Jewish posts so we can all clearly see what you mean.

Logically, if there wasn't a problem with the source of the clip you selected, YouTube would NOT have put the publisher notice on front & square.

There is no problem with the source stop trying to detract from the truth of the video, You-Tube states its self If a channel is owned by a news publisher that is funded by a government or publicly funded, an information panel providing publisher context may be displayed on the watch page of the videos on this channel. So no it has not specifically targeted AL Jazeera news at all, they do this fall all channels in this category and its not like the massive water mark in the corner is trying to hide it.

Trying to detract from the content by attacking the source is pretty lame, a strawman argument in its self, the truth is the truth.

The simple fact is Israel and Palestine both have fanatics on both sides of the spectrum and they both have serious implications on how you view the war on the destruction of innocents.

For those who are just appalled at the loss of human life and the suffering on both sides, there are steps you can take, to try to feel a little less hopeless.

You can write to your MP and the Prime Minister via email and implore them to call for a ceasefire and provision of aid (just google "write to my MP" or "write to the Prime Minister" and it explains how).

You can also donate to organisations providing aid (they can't provide it right now due to the blockade but once that is listed there are going to be over a million people in desperate need of food, water, medicines, clothes, shelter).

https://donate.unrwa.org/one-time/~my-donation
https://www.map.org.uk/
https://donate.redcross.org.uk/appeal/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territory-appeal

I found this to be a balanced piece on a possible solution to the crisis in the near-term: https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-gaza-and-death-two-state-solutionmums It's from the Centre for Strategic and International Studies if you don't want to click on the link

My cousin's dd is in IDF Intelligence and her dh is a soldier who was one of the first on scene at the kibbutz and confirmed he was met by the sight of tied up burnt mutilated children and decapitated infants. He has no reason to lie to his family. He will most certainly need trauma counselling.

Absolutely vile and acts like this should be condemned

@PinkTonic Oh my. Google is free. Palestinians living as Israeli citizens are what are known as Palestinians 1948- the ones that didn't flee in 1948.
You can't just apply and move from west bank and be treated equally.
You also, need to read Israel's State Law, that's been in place since 2018, thanks to Bibi Nothing Yahoo.

"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people"

The apartheid is not specifically within Israel. It is the settlers vs Palestinians in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza. That is where people scream apartheid because it is. Being unable to cross certain roads due to your race or religion is text book apartheid. Being unable to access resources due to race and religion is apartheid. Being given a defined route to commute and timed access to parts of Jerusalem that your family once lived but had to flee is apartheid. Being treated with little dignity in the West Bank by the settlers and IDF is apartheid. Being called 'Dogs' 'Rats' and being dehumanised is apartheid.

I know it's hard to hear but we have to call it out and not be complicit.

Israel itself may be more a cosmopolitan area, with its own struggles with favouritism and discrimination within its own Jewish communities (Sephardic and Mizrahi treated less than Ashkenazi for example but that is discrimination and not apartheid)

Apartheid is unique to the West Bank and Gaza, and East Jerusalem.

The IDF are also worthy of condemnation, in the guise of a moral army, desecration corpses and urinating on the dead bodies of palestinian children and this goes way beyond the horror of October 7th. The truth can be uncomfortable but we need to hear it and witness it and stand for everyone

Like seriously? When you’re reviewing any purported evidence you look at its source.this is basic research skills.

Agreed.

Countdown to deletion.

Yep.

I recently listened to Abbey Martin's finding from her visit to both Gaza & Jerusalem. Check her out, I thought she was credible, but, as we know it can be difficult to educate ourselves with truthful content.

x.com/atiqah_aryani/status/1713910464110080069?s=46

People are not dogs.

@25milesfromhome @ChickHenLittle I've been posting on MN for years and the situation in the ME has always been a touchy subject. I asked the same question in 2021 and didn't get much of a response. But! one poster did say that, the sole focus on Israel and its actions of oppression when there are numerous other examples of regimes that oppress their citizens is singling out Israel and therefore Jews.

I am happy to be corrected
I can to some extent understand the sentiment . However, as a counter argument, I told the poster at the time, that yes, there are other regimes out there that are awful; China's treatment of Uyghur Muslims; Russia vs Ukraine, Taliban in Afghanistan. The list can go on and trust me a I am v vocal about all them.

What is different about The Israel issue is that there is an occupation going on, on land that has indigenous people. On land that has expelled peopled turned them into refugees. The Settlements are continuing to expand despite them being illegal. There is Western support for the occupation, but condemnation for the all the other world issues I mentioned. It is a power dynamic and land grab issue, it has apartheidesque laws. It is an issue where one party has all the power and might and resources that can do what it can with impunity and seldom is held accountable. This is what people are fed up with.

When Saddam broke International Law the world went up in arms. When other middles eastern and North African leaders broke International Law we invaded them, and toppled them.

Israel as a govt now, has broken International Law NUMEROUS times, and still the International Community turns a blind eye.

If all countries and governments conduct themselves with integrity and accountability there would not be the singling out in this way.

The govt don't do themselves any favours as the optics look bad

My nephew is in the israeli police. He was deployed to help secure the communities in the aftermath.
He says the same thing and is traumatised too.

So your only upset at the source of the video and not the actions of burning babies alive in the documentary piece, speaks volumes very very loud.

One could say it echo's the thoughts within the video itself.

@Bakensmile

"What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe? "

The US govt is backing Israel's version of events.

You've asked a really good question; what steps are the groups who are firing the rockets taking to keep Palestinian people safe?

There is so much violence- on both sides. My view is that the only peaceful way out is to listen to both sides; and support moderates on both sides who want peaceful solutions

Exactly. This apartheid is why Jewish groups can’t convince Palestinian people to return to Judaism (most were Jews originally) because even when they convert, they are treated as lesser than anyone else. Plus with Islam or Christianity at least there is the remote possibility of leaving for a better life.

Some articles if people want to understand more:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2018/7/19/five-ways-israeli-law-discriminates-against-palestinians

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt183p80c

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm aware that people are not dogs. To some people however, its impossible to empathise with the plight of the palestinian people. They can more clearly identify the rights of an animal hence the example given.With all the denigrating language referring to the palestinian people as human animals,and general genocidal speech in the media, its revolting