Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

Part of the reason why Arab leaders allied with Nazis was because they were seeking freedom from British and French imperialism. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' kind of thinking. That's not to deny that anti-semitism was a factor.

It is depressing when you try and find info on or if Israel bombed a UN school or a hospital because so many references come up in Google from different years.
This article from 2021 is interesting about the need for safe medical facilities but of course Israel can just claim Hamas is hiding out there. I struggle to find that a justification for killing and maiming innocent people but clearly some people including posters on MN do. I am never going to agree with those people.

Israel-Gaza cease-fire doesn't mean the IDF should be excused for striking health facilities (nbcnews.com)

Considering Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad are funded as well as supplied by Iran, their rockets aren't exactly what you could describe as "puny".

They are capable causing significant damage. Hamas' rocket hit Barzilai hospital in Ashkelon and Deputy Director Dr. Gili Givati stated they destroyed the development center. IIRC, that's the Child Development wing of the hospital Dr Givati spoke about.

So, Hamas rockets can do more damage than you think.

This morning, one of the weapons experts BBC Verify spoke to pointed out there's no crater which you'd expect to be there if it was an Israeli airstrike.

I 100% agree with you

@Parkingt111 · Today 19:15

The double standards on here are quite apparent. Any pro palestian poster is very quickly ordered to condemn Hamas before making any point

Whereas the pro Israelis will absolutely refuse to condemn the actions of Israel
It seems like the whole of Gaza including schools, hospitals, residential buildings, Refugee camps, UN safe places etc are all given a free pass for Israel to attack under the guise of Hamas may be hiding there
The hypocrisy is quite telling

Unbelievable hypocrisy coupled with selective blindness and a sense of extreme superiority ready with any excuse (some pro Israel posters)

BBC reporting that Israel has agreed to let aid in through Egypt 🙏

However, it doesn’t say when.

Faith and belief. Aren't they used to justify these cruel acts? I'm autistic and I have serious issues with anything related to faith and belief, although I respect everyone's faith and beliefs. I think the planet would be better off without them though.

I think it helps to understand the proper background to this. Let’s face it, if your neighbour is saying they plan to wipe your country off the map you are going to do everything in your power to maintain control.

The only way to De escalate this is to get rid of the jihadists, have a peace process - but I think there needs to be an acceptance that land borders won’t change, but Gaza needs more control over its own destiny, power sources, desalination plants. Freedom of movement into Eygpt will also assist.

The UN will need to play a key roll. The process needs buy in from the West and Arab world.

Why don't you give it a rest with your goading. Your ignorance has been noted. We get it.

I think anybody justifying the deliberate or careless atrocities against civilians is despicable.

I don't know who hit the hospital, or whether it was deliberate.

The point is that innocent people who don't actually want the war, and don't want to fight, are suffering, and in great numbers.

Well you have interpreted that incorrectly, you might need to re-read the post to understand the relevance of the entire history of persecution against the Jews.

Over 10% of Hamas or Islamic Jihad rockets land within Gaza.

That happens in every single war unfortunately

I wonder if Egypt will allow aid in.

I wonder if Egypt will allow refugees out.

That would be something.

This is a really interesting about the incident yesterday. It raises some important questions.

@DownNative the BBC says there's no consensus.

Apparently the hospital had already been hit:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/they-believed-it-was-safe-death-toll-rising-blast-gaza-hospital

The Israeli military said an initial investigation suggested the explosion was caused by a failed Hamas rocket launch, before saying it was the result of a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket barrage. Islamic Jihad denied the Israeli allegation, and the scale of the blast appeared to be outside either of the militant groups’ capabilities.

The hospital, which is owned by the Anglican church, was reportedly struck without any prior warning. It was previously hit by a rocket on Saturday in an attack that injured four medical staff.

Before the al-Ahli blasts, Israeli strikes on Gaza had killed at least 2,778 people and wounded 9,700, according to the Gaza health ministry. Nearly two-thirds of those killed were children.

The dynamics in that particular region are heavily influenced by religious and hate-driven factors. It's worth pondering the absence of similar protests during current African decolonisation movements, which involve both Arab and European colonisers. Curiously, there seems to be little support for such causes. It's striking that a significant portion of Africa's wealth remains in the hands of former/current colonisers/ Neo-colonisers, which has left many Africans in dire circumstances.

One might wonder why these same individuals aren't taking to the streets to protest ongoing occupation and oppression in various parts of Africa. Is it that their activism is selectively focused, primarily highlighting issues concerning Israel and Palestine - driven by religion.

A one state solution is even LESS popular amongst Palestinians than it is amongst Israeli Jews.

"A vast majority among both groups (93%) see themselves as rightful owners of the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan river. While a third of Israeli Jews are willing to accept some ownership right of the Palestinians, only 7% of Palestinians are willing to accept such idea about the Jews."

And:

"...both publics still prefer two states to any other democratic framework for resolving the conflict."

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/928

A one State solution is unworkable and, IIRC, the two State option has more support.

On top of that, the Palestinian leadership have rejected every single peace deal tabled to the point where the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman said they should accept the deal or shut up in 2018.

It's significant that Saudi Arabia and Israel via the US were inching closer to a normalisation of relations deal when Hamas attacked.

Consider the history of Palestinians assassinating or attempting to Jordanian Kings who were in the process of a peace process with Israel.

Yes. And civilian casualities are awful every time.

It happens to a greater or lesser extent though, wouldn't you agree?

With the technology available to military these days (although probably not to Palestinians), precise strikes are possible. A military who has access to such tech but instead chooses less reliable, less precise, more widespread, more damaging weapons... Well there comes a point when collateral damage is a willful choice, and deliberate targeting is a very close cousin.

@Wonkasworld I'm the one that's goading? Please point out to me where I was goading?

Basically any thread where the majority do not support your view must be reported?
Maybe you should come off mumsnet if you can't stomach any sort of debate on the issue

@Maatandosiris you say that so casually and you can FO. I grew up in NI and having civilians blown to smithereens there is no justification and NO casual shrug it happens in war. If you do say that firstly there will never be peace and secondly in this context it would mean Israel Govt is the same as Hamas . One and the same - that's the logical conclusion I came to even as a teenager, if I did to my enemy what they did unto me we become the same.