Please restore my faith in humanity..Israel?

[Bakensmile]

I don’t view Hamas as humans, they are pure evil.

However I am astonished at the atrocities Israel are committing and getting away with, I want to believe they are good and just defending themselves but it’s getting harder to do that. I have some questions if anyone could answer, I would be grateful. Before this gets deleted as that’s probably inevitable as mumsnet doesn’t like anyone questioning Israel.

Over 1,000 children have been killed since this all began. Why are Palestinian children’s lives not viewed as important as Israelis?

To the people who say Israel need to destroy Hamas. If Hamas had underground tunnels within Israel. Underneath Israeli homes, hospitals. Would you support the dropping of bombs and view the killing of innocent Israeli civilians as collateral damage and an unavoidable tragedy? Or do you think Israel, who has arguably the most efficient intelligence in the world, would find another way to obliterate them?

The UK and US wrongfully invaded Iraq killing thousands of civilians, some members of the army were raping women and in one case burnt a child alive. If at that time, Iraq had decided to bomb the UK killing thousands of civilians as a way to defend themselves, would you also support that?

The most recent tragedy last night at the hospital. Israel immediately took responsibility and were quite proud they had ‘killed terrorists’. They then deleted this tweet and backtracked saying it was Hamas, releasing audio between two members as ‘proof’.

How can they intercept phone calls between terrorists but failed to see the initial attack and massacre of innocent israelis coming? How is this considered as proof? The two people talking could be anyone.

Why would they claim responsibility if it was nothing to do with them?

What are the chances that a rocket misfires and just happens to land on a hospital that was supposed to be keeping hundreds of Palestinians safe?

They got a response.

I will remind you of your own comment earlier today about finding non-biased, independent sources. It's a commendable stance.

But Al Jazeera is NOT that kind of source.

You say that you tried to stay neutral then throw a load of incorrect information out. Whe corrected you still blame Israel. You started against them, were corrected and then end up trusting them less.

Strange but shows your mind was made up regardless of answers

Pretty typical really.

Fully agree, I have zero skin in the game and just a bystander and that means I can can look at all sources and make an decision based on multiple sources of information.

Others it seems are so blinded by their hatred and entrenched views they are blinded by their own personal doctrine.

To be honest they are not worth talking to.

We should take the word of an anonymous poster's cousin's daughter?
I'm not saying it's not true, but anyone can say anything on the Internet, taking the word of a random poster anywhere isn't the best idea.

If that was true, you wouldn't be relying on Al Jazeera and would have had no problem providing people with an alternative source from a reputable, non-government funded news channel....🤷‍♂️

Indeed. But this account is entirely corroborated by many others and plenty of evidence, sadly too graphic to post.

I think you need to read what I said again.

I remember. However, this was a video with people saying outright what they believe. If someone (and I know it wouldn't be possible), somehow filmed every Gazan saying they supported Hamas, I wouldn't disbelieve it as it would be there, in front of me.
Lots of verification online about the existence and aims of the hilltop youth and the ideology displayed in the video. Those holding these views are not shy about confirming it (you can confirm with various sources). The family being burned to death is verifiable too.
Exactly why I watched the video and did some research afterwards, I wasn't actually aware of the hilltop youth and those who feel it their duty to attack the nearby Palestinians beforehand.

More word salad.

when are you going to address the collective punishment on the 2 million plus civilian population of Gaza, 50 % of who are children under the age of 18. The fact that Israel has deprived them of water, electricity, food, medicine, carpet bombed them. More than 1000 kids killed by Israel. Hundreds orphaned or maimed. They also had mothers who loved them and raised them. I saw a video of one woman who lost both her kids holding her son begging him to wake up and breastfeed from her. Was she to blame for what Hamas did? Were her children?

These facts alone, putting everything else aside are war crimes by a state actor and nuclear power backed by the most powerful country in the world that NOTHING can justify. In addition to calling Palestinians the “children of darkness (Israeli PM), “human animals” (Israeli defense minister).

All the Israel apologists on this thread seem to just conveniently overlook/deny these FACTS and just claim misinformation by people who they smear as racist when presented with reality.

@Desertrose2023 I wasn't responding to you. You descended into name-calling quite a while ago and I have paint I'd rather watch dry.

I'm not sure I understand @Pollyputhekettleon

I have family in the region, have Israeli Jewish friends, Jewish friends in the diaspora and have lived and worked in the Middle East.

What does any of the peace I a talking about have anything to do with Qatar?
Qatar's discrimination is not apartheid is it? It's discrimination.

I am talking about peace for Palestinians and Israelis. I believe it will happen, and no, contrary to what you may believe and what the corners of the media may sput- has nothing to do with 'wiping out the Jews'. This is very dangerous and careless inflammatory language that you cannot tar an entire people.

Just this morning I was listening to a citizen of Gaza, say that he has never had a problem with Jewish people, he just wants to live in peace, and have their children live in peace. This is amongst the rubble he found himself in.

So please don't think that ALL ARABS, EVERY EACH SINGLE non Jew is out for the Complete obliteration of Jews. It's ridiculous.

Palestinians and Jews are used as Pawns. Most are happy to live side by side, as they have for centuries, getting on with their lives. BUT- there has to be dignity restored to the Palestinians, there has to be the right to self determination, equal rights and the withdrawal of settlements. This is key.

because you have no response. That’s the whole point, you are fully aware that nothing you say can justify what Israel is doing so you just keep dodging with word salad 🤣🤣🤣

This. thank you.

Nothing about this is funny. This isn't a debating team where there are points for the best putdown.

This is a crisis; where there are victims and perpetrators of violence on both sides. Its complex and devastating

Oh please don't patronise us. I think many of us here have had the privilege of education and have been taught how to identify propaganda. Most of us are level headed enough to see through it. We shouldn't disregard Al jazeera as a news source but thanks for your concern.

It’s actually not complex. One side is a nuclear state, backed by one of the most powerful armies on earth. The other side is a refugee population imprisoned in a tiny strip of land that’s been crippled by years of blockade and is now being collectively punished in breach of international humanitarian laws.

and I don’t need to be reminded of the devastation, thanks. I’ve seen enough of it to fully appreciate the horror that’s happening. I grieve for the lives lost on both sides but the scale of the human suffering, loss, imbalance of power and devastation sits very clearly higher on the Palestinian side.

Particular posts on the subject seem to come from an "I know more than everyone" standpoint and are full of condescension. It's never a good angle to come from, and I just scroll past now.

It is very complex; and we will only have peace by understanding the views, perspectives, anger and fears of both sides

The views of the group in the Al Jazeera clip aren't representative of Israeli society as a whole, especially since that society is divided on different issues. Wikipedia states the Hilltop group - "They completely dissociate themselves from Israeli institutions". And an extremist group who claim their loyalty to the Land Of Israel, not the State of Israel. Two different things.

Absolutely not representative of Israeli society or views of the average Israeli any more than PIRA and UVF were representative of the society they came from.

At any rate, you don't need video of "every Gazan saying they supported Hamas" when we have various polls that shows a majority of Palestinians support Hamas and other terrorist groups.

The two societies are different with Israeli society having several different positions compared with Gazan society.

Well it was pointless bringing my post up then as I never once said they represent every Israeli. Where did you get that idea?

As discussed on other threads and as I found myself upon looking it up, there doesn't seem to be any solid proof of Palestinians largely supporting the terrorist cell Hamas. There are also no recent polls.

I note that it's not okay to label every Israeli as an extremist (with which I agree - they are not), but it is okay to apply to Palestinians.

A good article of the roots of the conflict here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/13/why-israel-palestine-conflict-history?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

I hadn't realised Israel was the aggressor in 1967, when it seized all that territory. I thought it had been attacked.

So what do you think Israel should be doing, in response to Hamas. How do you propose to flush the murderers out?

No, I fully agree! These views are not even remotely representative of most Israelis! Thank goodness! And, in fairness, that is not even remotely what the documentary seeks to portray.

They are, however, quite representative of some of the very far-right, Kahanist views that you find at the extremist end of the settler movement! And, yes, I have met some of them personally. Not a "pleasure" I personally care to repeat!

This is, in fact, relevant context - specifically because some of these extremely far-right exponents are in fact part of the current Netanyahu government (on the grounds that this is the only way he manages to cobble together a coalition)!

The fact that they are, literally, part of the government that determines what Israel does next DOES matter!

And, yes, quite rightly most normal and sane Israelis are somewhere between puzzled and deeply disgusted by these types. But they are in the government!

Its so sad that Palestinians trusted Hamas to do at least some good for them and voted them in in 2006.

I suppose they are between a rock and a hard place what with how they’ve been treated by Israel.