Trans People

[Lovenliving]

It is eye opening to see all the concerns that people on here and generally have around toilets and wards and sharing space with men. Even when they identify as women.

I do wonder if they see any parallels with how Black people might feel around white people. Personally, I am not worried about a man being in the toilets, I am worried that some sort of race related incident will occur while me and my loved ones are in a enclosed space without witnesses. I am worried that my stud relatives and friends who are already seen as masculine due to their Blackness will be harassed by white people while they frequent women's spaces.

I worry about how this idea that all men are an equal danger to women impacts on my Black teenage son in terms of how white women treat him in public and at work. I saw him go from Black boy to Black man and how people responded to him differently as a result. Normalising this response to men without understanding your own racial bias will increase microaggressions against Black people. White women will believe it is ok to treat Black men like dangerous predators and definitely more dangerous than men who are white. This isnt something we need more of for Black people. It kills Black men.

Honestly, in the grand scale of living as a Black mother in the UK, this trans issue is so far from my radar as things that mess up our life as a Black family in the UK. The thought that out of 100 people I might meet in a public bathroom, 1 might have been born a boy. It highlights how different at least my life is from the average white woman on Mumsnet.

Well said. Trans people are not the problem.

As the post above mine says. The Trans issue is not even an issue for me. It really does not affect my day to day life, unlike the racism I encounter, that is unfortunately a massive part of it.

Yes well said it’s a cause celeb - and again it’s white men that win because instead of collaborating, white women are working against trans people In the same
way men have done - using biology and science to be prejudiced - just like white men used biology to keep women in the kitchen and at home!!! Instead of uniting with them for change -

men as well as using science to oppress and enslave black people - men and women

I agree the percentage of times you are going to come across this in the loos (they are obsessed with loos) is so marginal

I'm a white women - please do let me know if anything I’ve said has offended. I’m working on my own unconscious bias (not meaning to put the work on you)

Or if you’d rather I left the discussion

I feel like some white women have the concern that transwomen will use male privilege to take away the things that are rightfully theirs without any self awareness of the fact that they use white privilege to take from black women. I think this is why the conversations around this grate.

Edited to add that I do realise this is often done unconsciously and without thought rather than through overt racist intent.

It does slightly come across like you’re trying to minimise women’s worry/concern over trans women in toilets because you have a different worry. Trans issues might not be on your radar in just the same way experiencing racism may not be on another’s radar. It’s upsetting anyone has either of these worries but one doesn’t trump the other

Well said OP

Jesus, tell that to the 10 year old girl raped in Morrisons women’s toilets by Katie Dolatowski!

Coming onto a black woman’s thread and minimising her experiences to further your anti trans agenda, is really gross by the way and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. Black women are some of the most oppressed people in the country - white women are not, despite what you may think.

I see what you are saying, and then there are others who know full well, when they are being racist, with intent, and do not care about the impact, that their actions have. That is a real problem.

It is not Trans people trying to make my life more difficult, then it needs to be. So I don't really care what they have to say. It just shows why a lot of BW are done with this board, because this always happens.

Ironically, the hatred seeps out of your post. Calling people with different views to you racist is a pretty lame argument.

Humans cannot change sex. An adult human who was "born a boy" is a man.

No woman should be forced to experience the indignity and fear of being incapacitated, partially clothed and vulnerable on a mixed sex hospital ward because of your ideology. That's abhorrent.

No one is saying black women aren’t some of the most oppressed people in the country - but you are saying that men who say that they are women and enter women’s spaces are NOT a problem. Can you really not understand why men being permitted to go into women’s toilets/changing rooms/sports/prisons etc is not a problem? Really?

One has nothing to do with the other. It’s not a competition.

I can’t work out if this is a goady thread designed to trigger but if not - y’all are crazy. Seriously.

There's no anti-trans agenda and calling women's rights campaigners that is bigoted and hateful.

I’m sorry that this is the case. I completely see where OP is coming from and I absolutely agree, it’s just a shame that this thread is now going to get derailed with people missing the point.

I don't know, my black and brown Muslim family members are pretty concerned about encountering a man in a women's changing room.

Tell barrister Alison Bailey that trans ideology isn’t harmful to black women.

Tell nurse Jennifer Melle that trans ideology isn’t harmful to black women.

Racism exists, and we all need to fight it, but allowing a self selecting group of men into women’s spaces isn’t the answer.

I have zero problem with genuine trans women being in changing rooms/prisons/toilets.

But allowing men into women’s spaces WILL make your life more difficult as a woman, if you are a woman. Your skin colour has nothing to do with it.

Just bc you’ve had no negative interactions to do with this subject so far doesn’t mean you won’t. What if your dd wants to play a women’s only sport and is forced to play against men? Is that ok?

Allowing men into women’s only spaces will make your life even more difficult than simply being a black woman - if it’s not challenged. You’ll simply have another set of sex-based problems to deal with. Can’t you see that?

If not I’m not sure anyone can help you.

What is a genuine trans woman?

What’s a genuine trans women? How do I know? How does a 10 year old child know?

How do you tell the difference between a genuine trans woman and a non genuine trans woman?

Just because you’re fine with men perving on you in toilets and changing rooms doesn’t mean other women (whatever their colour) are fine with it. You don’t get to consent for all women.

You cannot ban all trans women from women’s spaces just in case a man pretends to be a trans woman to attack a woman. I’m sorry, you just can’t. Just like we can’t imprison all men because some men rape women. Every trans woman I have ever met just wants to live in peace, and isn’t interested in any of this insane discourse that goes on online.