White women posting on Black Mumsnetters - all good?

[Sugarintheplum]

Hiya,

I'm just looking for your honest opinion here - feel free to get a new handle to respond to this one if you like (I do that sometimes!)

My view is this: I don't hugely object, partly because it's the internet, and I can't expect that to be truly for a devoted protected space, so it's kinda 'meh'. I just thought about it because of the 'are blonde women more attractive' thread, and there are lots of white women on it.

I've asked something similar before, and I ask it again here, if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?

If it is a belief that no space should be 'exclusive', i'd think Black Mumsnetters might turn one off completely - ugh, yuk, segregation. If it is a belief that well, one or two white women won't change things (do they? My opinion is that yes, a space with just black women in it talking black women things is materially changed by having white women in it) I can see that too maybe, only things do have a way of being taken over and before you know it black mumsnetters has very few black women at all posting. If it is 'I should be able to be wherever I choose, thank you!', or 'i just love being in chats with diverse groups, I 'm not thinking about it that way' I'd like to know too.

But mostly, black women, how do you feel about it?

Like I say, I'm cool about it, I just don't get it. If there were a Trans Mumsnetters, or Asian Mumsnetters, or LGBT Mumsnetters, or Young Mumsnetters, I wouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to post, I'm black straight and over 30. My children's partner is from a different ethnic group to me and if there were a group for mumsnetters from that community, again, I wouldn't feel any sort of need to post.

Anyway, on this I am truly musing.

Ta!

A few people have said that they feel they cannot post because they are not black but no one has actually directed to a post that states that.

It isn't so much that I feel I cannot post, and it definitely isn't the case that anyone else has told me that I'm not welcome. It's more the fact that I don't feel it's appropriate to post when the OP has specifically chosen to post on a board for black MNers.

I guess I might post in response to a specific request for factual information, e.g.about books with black characters or something. However, I would refrain from responding to anything which requires a subjective judgement e.g. how multicultural is a particular town or region, because my perspective as a white woman might not be particularly useful to someone who is looking to hear about the experiences of other black people.

I really want to know what are the thoughts of white women on: what are the reasons behind white people wanting to be in black spaces.

Some don't notice the topic and so don't realise this is a black space. Some notice but don't realise or care that this isn't their space; bit of an empathy failure to my mind there. And sometimes the urge to join in a fascinating discussion overrides the need to sit on one's hands.

I mostly hang out on FWR and it's bloody annoying when people who aren't female take up residence and dominate thread after thread; I imagine similar underlying psychology of ignorance/entitlement may drive some white people to loudly hang around here sooner or later (if they don't already).

why might non-black women want to post?
Surely only non black people know the answer, anything else is conjecture, but the non black posters can't tell you because you don't feel they should be on here answering.

@TellItToTheStars

To reiterate, i'm black and don't always feel welcomed to post on BMN because of some of my life choices, so i wouldn't imagine the non-black folk "can" post

You are welcome to post here as you fully well know. What is not welcome is your sweeping statements putting down black men to support some of your life choices.

@ginandbearit

I'm white and have read a few threads on here and have learnt a lot , especially the always keep your receipts issue ..the constant stresses of being black in a white world needs to be understood and illustrated by examples like that ...that's what contributes to white privilege, a concept I vaguely understood before but that one example really rammed it home .

I am glad that people who are non black are able to gain some understanding of the issues black people go through daily, if they were not aware before. They need to know otherwise things will just remain the same.

I guess I might post in response to a specific request for factual information, e.g.about books with black characters or something. However, I would refrain from responding to anything which requires a subjective judgement e.g. how multicultural is a particular town or region, because my perspective as a white woman might not be particularly useful to someone who is looking to hear about the experiences of other black people.

Isn’t that the same of most topics?

I’ve never posted on lone parents. I’ve read it to help understand and support my friend when she found herself in this position. If I had a nugget of info to add (say books for resources) I’d do so.

I’m white and I commented on the ´looking for toddler books with non white characters’ thread because I enjoy that kind of research task and I could potentially find something helpful. I wouldn’t post on threads that are clearly asking for opinions from other black mumsnetters. To me the thread about blond hair was asking for opinions from black mumsnetters because otherwise the OP would have started it on a different board.

I think I posted on the blond thread.
Either way, I recall that I was intrigued by some posters treated differently if the dyed their hair (blond to dark, vice versa).

I found that quite interesting and it reinforced the notion that women in particular are treated differently based on appearance/hair and white women suffer with ‘hairism’ on some level too. Had never occurred to me before.

Isn’t that the same of most topics?

Yes, I think the same principle applies on lots of threads. I don't know what it's like to be a black woman, or a lone parent, or gay, or any number of other things. I don't think it's necessarily the case that you should only be allowed to comment on things that are within the realm of your own experience, as it's good to get different perspectives. However, if someone has posted in a space for a specific group, and is clearly seeking views from others within that group, then my perspective is clearly superfluous to requirements.

@C130 here we go again with saying i'm not welcome to post as a black woman because of my views on black men. This is absurd. My views are valid and it it something we need to address as black women. A portion of black men have expressed a preference for lighter skinned women, and have 3 baby mamas. Why should these facts be hidden and not talked about?

Anyway i guess the BMN police are patrolling the thread. Good luck to non-black folks for posting on BMM

Why wouldn't BMN topic exist? Unfortunately a black womans lived experience of many things will be different to a white womans experience. Surely black women are entitled to a space they can speak about it without the white women piling on & glossing over their lived experience as 'it's never happened to them'

I posted on the blondes attractive thread as a nonblack and nonwhite person because I love reading about European history and knew the history behind why blondes became a popular beauty standard in Europe (hint: Roman slave trade for blondes).
I posted the history because I thought it would be useful to anyone reading the thread to understand the why behind the standard.
I did not post an opinion though, because I respect it’s a black space. And I was part of the PatricksRum threads to have it set up and there was much contraversey about nonblacks posting with some saying nonblack posters should be banned by MNHQ from MN if they dare to post to others saying anyone should be able to post regardless of race. Given the extremity of some opinions, I felt that nonblack posters where welcome to post anything useful- facts, tips, history but should not really express opinions.
So that’s how I have conducted myself on the black MN page. I do contribute the odd fact or tip (I think I posted a book I had read and liked by black author on that thread) mostly because I’d like the black MN section to thrive and not die due to lack of posters/use. There is nothing more disheartening than starting a thread and getting no replies.

There was much controversy about nonblacks posting with some saying nonblack posters should be banned

This is a shame.

There was much controversy about nonblacks posting with some saying nonblack posters should be banned

Bit misleading.
It was more like a comment or so "non blacks shouldn't post if they're just going to ignore others, or come in with their opinions on things outside of their experience, or to minimise etc"
Cue lots of non black people taking their bat and ball home with "Well! If THAT's how you're going to be, I don't want to post anyway! I know when I'm not wanted!
Did you know we're not welcome on the board, we're not allowed on there?!"
Erm, wasn't quite like that, was it......

Hmm opinion noted

I'm assuming hiding the board will mean it no longer comes up for me

I don't know who died and made the opinion of a few BMN the holy grail as to decide who and what can be posted. It is absurd coming from a fellow BMN...AND i shouldn't have to justify being black, a mum, trans or lesbian to be able to post on any thread in MN.

I think it’s considerate to give groups their own space. I’m white and I’d only contribute if white people’s opinions were being asked for.

@TellItToTheStars I agree with those who say it’s not okay to post clearly prejudice/racist generalisations about a group of people.

You are entitled to have and share opinions about black men but don’t be surprised or offended when your prejudiced and racist views are challenged and called out.

You don’t get to excuse your views or give them legitimacy by say “I’m a black woman”.

@Quaagars

There was much controversy about nonblacks posting with some saying nonblack posters should be banned

Bit misleading.
It was more like a comment or so "non blacks shouldn't post if they're just going to ignore others, or come in with their opinions on things outside of their experience, or to minimise etc"
Cue lots of non black people taking their bat and ball home with "Well! If THAT's how you're going to be, I don't want to post anyway! I know when I'm not wanted!
Did you know we're not welcome on the board, we're not allowed on there?!"
Erm, wasn't quite like that, was it......

Not what I recall. One poster said they should be banned. Many posts were deleted on those threads. I do recall, the poster who said that wasn’t PatricksRum. She actually was very patient and reassured later posters who saw that and got upset.

I would post if it came up in active, mostly with hair questions because it's something I have experience in!
I am white but have 3A/B hair due to technically having mixed race ancestry (if you go off the one drop theory!) but it's pretty far back. My great grandad was black

One poster said they should be banned. Many posts were deleted on those threads

Maybe that's why I missed it then if it was a deleted post - if it was deleted though, looks like MN agreed that it was out of order for them to have deleted it.
So their opinion sounds like a goady fuckery one people shouldn't take much notice of if they got deleted for stirring or whatever guideline they broke.

The bus seats need to be more clearly marked so people don't accidentally sit in the wrong ones and cause discomfort to those who think it matters.

I'll block the topic to be on the safe side (I thought I had)

@Quaagars

One poster said they should be banned. Many posts were deleted on those threads

Maybe that's why I missed it then if it was a deleted post - if it was deleted though, looks like MN agreed that it was out of order for them to have deleted it.
So their opinion sounds like a goady fuckery one people shouldn't take much notice of if they got deleted for stirring or whatever guideline they broke.

Yes, it was early on in the first of threads that PatricksRum started discussing a black MN section. It was later deleted for exactly the reason you state it was goady and nasty. But by the time it was deleted a lot of later posters for several pages had expressed outrage. Some (wrongly) attributed the post to PatricksRum and she had to say she never said it and didn’t agree a few times. By the end of the thread even later posters who never saw that post had started accusing the other posters of making the existence of a suggested ban on nonblack posters up. It was quite a mess.

There were also many posts as you describe. So yes, you are right those discussions you mention did occur as well.

I occasionally post on the board. My DH is black and I have a mixed race son. I often might need advice on haircare, DH is particularly bad at knowing which products to use. I hope the women on the board don't mind sharing their wisdom.

On the other hand, my DH is a passionate campaigner for greater inclusion in the workplace and he pioneers a lot of diversity initiatives at work (big tech company) If I saw a thread that related to something he works on I would comment as I talk about this every single day with my DH and he's been working on this for the last 7 years.

I completely understand the need for black women to have a safe space and I'm sorry if I've encroached on that. I suppose if you are with a black partner it's a unique experience in the sense that you are deeply deeply passionate about black matters and the need to protect black voices but not black yourself so don't experience the prejudice and injustice directly. But I see it every day with my DH and it's infuriating.

A bit rambly sorry!