White women posting on Black Mumsnetters - all good?

[Sugarintheplum]

Hiya,

I'm just looking for your honest opinion here - feel free to get a new handle to respond to this one if you like (I do that sometimes!)

My view is this: I don't hugely object, partly because it's the internet, and I can't expect that to be truly for a devoted protected space, so it's kinda 'meh'. I just thought about it because of the 'are blonde women more attractive' thread, and there are lots of white women on it.

I've asked something similar before, and I ask it again here, if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?

If it is a belief that no space should be 'exclusive', i'd think Black Mumsnetters might turn one off completely - ugh, yuk, segregation. If it is a belief that well, one or two white women won't change things (do they? My opinion is that yes, a space with just black women in it talking black women things is materially changed by having white women in it) I can see that too maybe, only things do have a way of being taken over and before you know it black mumsnetters has very few black women at all posting. If it is 'I should be able to be wherever I choose, thank you!', or 'i just love being in chats with diverse groups, I 'm not thinking about it that way' I'd like to know too.

But mostly, black women, how do you feel about it?

Like I say, I'm cool about it, I just don't get it. If there were a Trans Mumsnetters, or Asian Mumsnetters, or LGBT Mumsnetters, or Young Mumsnetters, I wouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to post, I'm black straight and over 30. My children's partner is from a different ethnic group to me and if there were a group for mumsnetters from that community, again, I wouldn't feel any sort of need to post.

Anyway, on this I am truly musing.

Ta!

@june2007

But how can you have a discussion saying are blondes more attractive when you exclude those who are naturally blonde. It,s going to be a bit one sided. (Actually it included blondes and non blondes and as a result was quite fair.)

Ok, that's YOUR opinion: you think black women need white women in a conversation about blonde hair. I'm a black woman and I'm sincerely telling you I would find such a conversation absolutely fine. In fact, I've had exactly that conversation with black friends several times in my life and never felt it was lacking because I was looking for their opinion. Of course if I were wondering about how white women feel on the topic it would be a completely invalid discussion not to include them.

BTW, I have black people in my family with naturally blonde hair and red hair.

So this came up on active, I didn't even register there were different areas and like others I assumed mumsnet was open across the board for whoever wanted to post?

@OppsUpsSide

I honestly think black women can have a full enough conversation without white women

Does this apply to this thread? Were you only wanting black women to reply to this one? It’s hard to tell!

@OppsUpsSide

Hoping all will respond, black and non-black. I really want to know what are the thoughts of white women on: what are the reasons behind white people wanting to be in black spaces.

And then I was hoping for black women to tell me how they feel about white women commenting.

There's a lot of discrimination towards heterosexual white women lately.
And how we can't discuss it because it makes us homophobic or transphobic or racist etc.
Why can't everyone just get along and be nice and respect each other.
Why we need segregated boards is beyond me. Particularly on an anonymous forum

Why is this separate boards for black/white people i never knew this an why should it be like this i thought it didn't matter skin colour race region were all people at end of the day an every single one of us has fears,problems just need a chat or whatever the way to come together is be together meaning 1 board i only read active an have never given a thought as to the colour of somebody's skin.

There's an Irish forum called Craicnet. I'm Irish, so I use it. Have no objections to non-Irish people joining in in at all but I would object to non-Irish behaving as if their opinion on Irish matters overrides that of the Irish. That would be my take on any of the other specific groups (Scots, Black MNers, StepParenting etc) - fine to read and participate but has to be done respectfully.

If the forum appears on Active, it's open for everyone to discover - that's my take on it anyway.

@Sweettea1

Why is this separate boards for black/white people i never knew this an why should it be like this i thought it didn't matter skin colour race region were all people at end of the day an every single one of us has fears,problems just need a chat or whatever the way to come together is be together meaning 1 board i only read active an have never given a thought as to the colour of somebody's skin.

This forum was set up on the back of a campaign to MNHQ. If you read the thread it came from you can see why it's necessary. While the whole "sure we're all the same, skin colour doesn't matter" is lovely, it ignores the fact that different groups have different experiences and sometimes AIBU etc can be very straight/white/British focused. I know I get a lot out of Craicnet that I couldn't get from Chat and AIBU.

I'm not black so I'm posting as why someone non black might post/ join discussion. My husband is Jamaican, we have two children. He was adopted by a white family so has as little clue as i do when it comes to things such as hair care for example, so i might be interested/ comment in certain threads being a mother of mixed race children and it being relevant to my life and living in a majority white area, with no extended family on dhs side. I'd love for them to have more connection to their Caribbean side as i do with their Irish/German/eastern European on my side of the family. I wouldn't really like to think I'd need a special mixed family topic to engage in this. As per previous pp's i saw this on active threads and it refers directly to black mumsnetters in the title however i assume people comment without checking and others might just because they want to on an open forum. Saying that I'd personally not have anything to say on a thread such as mentioned about being a black women, not being one myself. But would like to think it's ok to comment if relevant as i would with any topic really.

I hear you OP. I wouldn’t come on this section purposely, because as you say, I’ve got the whole site for anything and everything. Literally this is the first time.

Black women have this space and I respect that, therefore I chose to go on the other areas instead.

I know some will say ‘ohh but shouldn’t everyone be allowed to post everywhere’, well yes, but as a white woman, I don’t feel the need to come on here, when it was created as a space purposely for blank women.

The rest of the site is enormous so I don’t need to be on here. That said, I’d best get off this site full stop - as I’m up for work on about 5 hours 🥴

@Timeforredwine

If there are separate boards(I dont come on here a lot) then fair enough if you try to use the right sections to post on thats great BUT I thought everything now was to be inclusive and join together no matter what religion, political view, sexuality? So even if you arent of the same group surely everyone can participate and freedom of speech etc?

Yes, you can comment for exactly those reasons.

I'm wondering what makes you want to.

If this were represented in real life, not figuratively online, it would look like a clutch of black women saying 'ooh, wouldn't it be good to have a chat amongst ourselves' and then meandering over somewhere, settling down, taking out their sandwiches and cups of tea, getting comfy, putting up a sign that says 'Black mumsnetters corner' starting to talk about stuff they didn't feel comfy talking about in the bigger group, and then white women coming over and contributing to that chat. I think some black women would make room for them, talk back, smile, a bit of interlocution, thinking 'its not what we intended, but no harm in it', and some other black women would stop talking about how racism in online dating, being ashamed of being black etc, because it's no longer that black space, and yet others would sit there, sandwich in hand, mouths gaping that this white women just came over and said 'wouldn't there be an uproar if we white women went off and made our own group', and others, like me would just be thinking 'its fine that you're here, nothing to be done about it now, but you saw us break away, we even put a little sign up??'

That's tongue in cheek, but kinda how it is, to me, anyway.

I'm yet to comment on any other post in BMN but I would if I felt I could add something of value which doesn't relate to my ethnicity. I wouldn't comment on discussions around race issues, racism, cultural identity etc as this forum, in my eyes at least, is a protected space for those topics. I don't read them either as it almost feels invasive and voyeuristic. I would like to be a participant in some discussions but accept that its not a table I'm entitled to sit at.

It is a fact however that I was born and grew up in Hackney which obviously has a rich and diverse black community and history, so if the question was ever asked about good churches, black owned businesses, food (to a lesser extent) and venues etc I would hope that my suggestions would be taken on board.

Well why do non mums post on mumsnet? Because every topic isn't about mums and their children, there are various, engaging topics on everything from careers to finance to fashion to good old fashioned drama.

I'm assuming black mn isn't just people tslling solely about being black - there are other interesting discussions going on yeah? So why wouldn't a woman see something interesting, say a topic regarding an industry she works in and wants to discuss? There are probably other topics however that you would need to be black to fully understand.

I'm still struggling with the fact you wouldn't go clubbing with your lesbian friends because you didn't want to encroach on LGB clubs. Are you young or from outwith the UK? Because when I was a student, we'd go to LGB clubs with our LGB friends and if someone had refused that would have been considered very bigoted.
I have no view on the question you've raised in relation to MN. Anyone can be anyone on the internet. Trying to police engagement in online forums seems bizarre to me but, as someone of mixed heritage, I also wouldn't post in a forum delineated by race. Anything that attempts to normalise proving or questioning ethnicity is not a positive imo.

And tbh, I often don't have a clue what section I'm posting in - I just see interesting topics come up on my homescreen in the trending bit and click on them.

Am black and am wondering: can a white woman with a mixed race child or black adopted child come here and comment on or ask about hair or skin care for a black child? I have two senior white women in my life I consider surrogate or "deputy mothers". They have on occasions pointed me towards very good black authors, documentaries etc. If they read a black man or woman on black mumsnet was asking for good books on say racism (one of these women pointed me to the book "Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race" well before it became a bit) would it be offensive if they posted such a suggestion to a specific request.? I understand where you're coming from (risk of the space being taken over. It pretty much happened with blm especially with white celebrities). It's a tough question in some ways. What if a white woman posts here asking to learn?
As for attractiveness of blondes, I don't see it as an exclusively white debate since someone from any ethnicity can find blondes attractive or not. I don't see race being a barrier to whether one funds certain features attractive

Hello.

This is my take (white, parent, female).

Firstly, I saw this thread because it's on Active. I don't come onto this board naturally. It's not where I search.

Secondly, I read PatricksRum's threads to get this space set up. I didn't comment on any of the threads, because I'm white, but I was understanding of why she wanted it, admiring of her and cheering her on. (I think I might have made one supportive post on thread 1 or 2, but that would have been under a different UN).

I tend to get my MN from Active threads. So sometimes this board comes up. If I see it's this board I don't comment, because I understand how and why you are here and how and why you want this space.

HOWEVER, this is my personal experience of MN.
I found mn and signed up and joined thinking it was a parents forum. (my job is working with parents. I run parenting courses. And I am a parent). And I was horrified how anti-children and non supportive of parents some threads were.
Really early after I joined, I made a thread about it (I now realize there are a gazillion of these). But along the lines of 'why are you here if you're not a parent?'.
Got my arse handed to me on a plate, of course!
But on that thread, I remember looking and looking and looking at the logo in the top corner ("by parents, for parents"). At the time I LITERALLY didn't understand why non parents would be on here.

Nearly 10 years later, of COURSE I get why non parents would be on MN... It has SO much to offer.

I also have a bit of an isshoo about men being on here. I'm happy with the single dads, it's the rest of them I'm not so keen on. I think a lot of them have an agenda other than a parenting forum.
But I'm not the MN police. I've been here long enough that I do 'get' why people are here. I think a lot of people find MN accidentally and see it, like it, stay. I get that. I did that too.
And MN are very clear that they welcome anyone.

So those two things are a contradiction for me: A website that states it is inclusive and a private/personal space for a minority group.

But I'm not a racist. I understand the BLM agenda. I think it's massively important.

Not being nasty, but I don't think you get to be snippy. If you choose to be here (on MN), I think you have to take on board their inclusivity ethos (which I also support). Are there websites exclusively for black women? If that's what you need, post there. If there aren't, and that's what you need, start one.
Having said that, I respect there being a black space. I think this is my first post on this board. I hope I haven't caused offence.

I like that MN set this up. And I do respect it. I have sometimes peeped over for a look because I saw the threads asking for this and wanted to see how it panned out.

But in my heart, I don't think you can tell posters they're not allowed to post here. I get that this is your space. I utterly respect your space.
But this is the internet.

I hope I've answered your question without being disrespectful. I'm glad you have your own board!

I don't agree, i think black women can have a full conversation without white women You do realise this comes across as racist. The whole point of Black Mumsnetters is to discuss issues black women face and it is a good space for other races to comment and be part of the conversation. How else can other races be educated on us black women to stop the predjudice?

I don't agree. I honestly think black women can have a full enough conversation without white women. It wasn't about white women, it was about whether one thinks blonde is more attractive

I'm white and I agree with this. I think people who are not part of a minority group are not used to being talked over and needing their own space.

I am part of disability groups, formed because we want a space to talk, and we don't need non disabled people chiming in. I imagine it is the same for black women.

I know me posting on this thread seems hypocritical!

@Gobbeldegook

There's a lot of discrimination towards heterosexual white women lately. And how we can't discuss it because it makes us homophobic or transphobic or racist etc. Why can't everyone just get along and be nice and respect each other. Why we need segregated boards is beyond me. Particularly on an anonymous forum

Really, can you tell me how heterosexual women have been discriminated against?

I'm confused.

I saw this in active which is why I'm here.

You say you are wanting views from white women, in this topic, but you don't want white women posting in this topic. That's slightly.. wonky logic.

Are you trying to reignite all the stuff from when this topic was asked for? It was a total shitshow. I was in favour. There are loads of topics. It was wanted. Why not.

FYI I have looked at some recipe/ cooking threads but not commented. I like food.

I am also a bit confused why you didn't go out with your lesbian mates when invited. Ok I sort of know. But also. You were invited. Interesting point. I went but looking back it was not my space. I was intruding.

That was IRL in the 90s though. This is an anon chat board. Active conversations come up.

This is called Mumsnet. It is predominately women. Some men come and act like right dicks. Some just post and you wouldn't know. Does it matter as long as people are on topic and respectful? It's the internet.

And what's all this blonde stuff about? You see now I want to have a look. So I will. I'm blonde and it's been a very very mixed experience. It's something I have a lot to say about. Harassment when way too young mainly. And it being my defining feature. And the assumptions made about me. It's an interesting and I'll be honest a fairly emotional topic for me.

Anyway I'll have a look.

So why are you inviting women in and flagging other threads in this topic? Counter productive surely.

@Gingerkittykat I don't agree, i think all are welcome to any boards for education purposes. For e.g. I'm not disabled but i was on crutches for the greater part of six months twice in my life. White folks may be married to black folks etc.

Ginger kitty they aren't of course.

Which is why I am ??? About the aim of this post.

I've skimmed the blonde thread and I'm not seeing anyone pissed off etc.

I take the point that black/ blonde is different to white/ blonde. But loads of people don't look at the topic tbh.

Is it just that thread?

There are a few "guard dogs" on here trying to kick non-white folks off the thread. As a black woman, i strongly disagree with this approach. Yes we have our unique issues and i'm happy for all to be aware of what they are. Black folks can be just as predujiced as any other race and the OP has shown that by starting this thread

Guard dogs?

Interesting language.