White women posting on Black Mumsnetters - all good?

[Sugarintheplum]

Hiya,

I'm just looking for your honest opinion here - feel free to get a new handle to respond to this one if you like (I do that sometimes!)

My view is this: I don't hugely object, partly because it's the internet, and I can't expect that to be truly for a devoted protected space, so it's kinda 'meh'. I just thought about it because of the 'are blonde women more attractive' thread, and there are lots of white women on it.

I've asked something similar before, and I ask it again here, if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?

If it is a belief that no space should be 'exclusive', i'd think Black Mumsnetters might turn one off completely - ugh, yuk, segregation. If it is a belief that well, one or two white women won't change things (do they? My opinion is that yes, a space with just black women in it talking black women things is materially changed by having white women in it) I can see that too maybe, only things do have a way of being taken over and before you know it black mumsnetters has very few black women at all posting. If it is 'I should be able to be wherever I choose, thank you!', or 'i just love being in chats with diverse groups, I 'm not thinking about it that way' I'd like to know too.

But mostly, black women, how do you feel about it?

Like I say, I'm cool about it, I just don't get it. If there were a Trans Mumsnetters, or Asian Mumsnetters, or LGBT Mumsnetters, or Young Mumsnetters, I wouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to post, I'm black straight and over 30. My children's partner is from a different ethnic group to me and if there were a group for mumsnetters from that community, again, I wouldn't feel any sort of need to post.

Anyway, on this I am truly musing.

Ta!

@FlissMumsnet

Just nipping in with a quick reminder ........

This board was set us as we're aware there will be sensitivities and common experiences that Black MNers will find easier to talk about in a dedicated space.

The board exists primarily for the use of black Mumsnetters. While others are of course welcome to use it, please be respectful and mindful that this is a 'safe space' for those posters. While some may be happy to answer questions on race, others may not and it's not their responsibility to educate on these issues.

Still needing to be said.

It does!

You know, there is hardly a thread still that doesn't have a deleted frothy mouthed contribution to it.
Moderation has improved on here, having said that.

Definitely was worth reading over again though. I thought it was a squatter reviving the zombie.
I came armed with a super soaker too!.

And so many gems from different posters, including the OP! Too numerous to copy and paste.

I really don't think anyone is saying white people are not allowed to post in BMN. Not only would that be ridiculous, it would also be completely unenforceable.

What I am saying, is that I don't want BMN to become a space that is used by white people to:

- centre themselves
- lecture Black women
- invalidate Black women's experiences
- share their proximity to Blackness (DH/DP/DC/BAME relatives), and no other reason*
- ask disingenuous questions

Posts which contain any of the above, I personally wouldn't engage in discussion with, and there have been some in BMN already.
~
great, they have a space, I'm interested, but I want them to be able to talk among themselves without me, without me making my gaze known', and because I might think 'is my contribution what they are looking for? Is it needed? If it were, why would they choose to post it here, rather than elsewhere on mumsnet'.
~
Nobody is saying that white people shouldn't be involved in the discussion, however some white people aren't able to contribute without centreing themselves, or dominating the conversation, as so often happens (especially) to Black women, in real life. And that's where the problem lies.

I came armed with a super soaker too!

🤣🤣

You may still need one!

It's only a matter of time PutTheSink

I'll hide over here behind the flag with the Black star in the middle.

Just give me a shout and I'll run out and give a few well directed splooshes.

It works on the cat next door........

What a day! Squoooooooooooooooooooooshhhhh!

For true inclusivity, I’m happy for anyone to post on any board they wish

OP, in theory it should be "all good", but in practice things often turn nasty if a white person posts on any subject in the Black Mumsnetters section, as it is quickly made clear that their input is not welcome and they are shown the door. Ideally people of all races and skin colours should be able to discuss things calmly, and learn from each other, they should be able to celebrate each other's unique qualities, acknowledge differences while also respecting each other, and realise that as humans they have plenty in common, despite differences in life experience and culture. Sadly, we haven't reached that stage yet. So, apart from this specific discussion, the Black Mumsnetters section is basically a no go zone for white people. That will be seen as a plus for some people, and a negative for others. You can't please everyone.

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnet Rees is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnetters is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

Black mumsnet tees is a site for black women to gain other black perspectives

@Seemslikeagoodidea

A safe space for black women only: am I correct in hearing you say-

Achieving that is 'sad'?

A world where that space cannot be achieved is 'ideal'?

I'm my honest black opinion :

I've done a lot of celebrating White people. Bring on another royal wedding or Jubilee of i get a day off, why not?

Learned from white people - that is out educational system after all.

See white people as humans.

Respect our differences.

I'm concerned to hear it's not ideal for me to able to do that regarding black culture with other black women unless white people can join.

Oh FFS @Seemslikeagoodidea
Do toddle on with your bollocks.

Women's spaces are for women. Men plopping in the dynamic changes the discussion. Got it?

It's exactly the same, when people like you, plop on here to deliver the daily whitesplain lecture. Yawn Yawn Yawn.

You've brought nothing to the table here, just the usual ill informed opinion about something, you know nothing about.

Black women here are talking about matters that affect us as black women. Not your business, is it?

The handful of people who come to post here, who are white, bring something to the table. A great example was the recent post for Black Muslims working in the NHS. Not something we might have seen otherwise. Unlike you, that poster came in support, not to hector on the basis of ill informed opinion.

Go and post on the rest of the enormous forum here. How about finding the board for cat lovers, and telling them dogs are superior?

That should go down well. About your heavy, I imagine.

@FlissMumsnet

Just nipping in with a quick reminder ........

This board was set us as we're aware there will be sensitivities and common experiences that Black MNers will find easier to talk about in a dedicated space.

The board exists primarily for the use of black Mumsnetters. While others are of course welcome to use it, please be respectful and mindful that this is a 'safe space' for those posters. While some may be happy to answer questions on race, others may not and it's not their responsibility to educate on these issues.

Just for those who can't RTFT.

I haven't been on MN for a long time. I did post on a thread on BMN a week ago because it came up in Active. I was mortified when I realised and went away again. I was posting because the OP was having a hard time and I assumed (because I didn't know it was on BMN) that it was because a lot of white women with no knowledge of afro hair were going at her. In fact, I think it started off in AIBU so that may have been the case.
I am not keen on the over use of 'safe space' but safe spaces started for a good reason and this is definitely one of them.

One question tho. How do you feel about being asked advice on hair and skin care? Will it get on your nerves?

Anyway. When I had been on MN for a few years it there was an incredibly racist element. It was horrible. I tried my best but even then I felt patronising when I was trying to be helpful.

I

Seemslikeagoodidea

You seem to have really poor boundaries. Is this just on topics that don't concern you, and you feel the need to make your voice known, or does this extend to other areas of your life?

Trust me, it's an awful trait to have.

This has been going on for over a year

10Perfectlyadjusted

@Seemslikeagoodidea

A safe space for black women only: am I correct in hearing you say-

Achieving that is 'sad'?

A world where that space cannot be achieved is 'ideal'?

@10Perfectlyadjusted No, I just meant it is sad that people feel the need to exclude others of a different skin colour in order to feel safe.

However, I will respect those feelings and stay away from this section.

@EuromamaAussiekids

This has been going on for over a year

Yes. Did you get an overwhelming urge to post the obvious?

It often reminds me of when the Dead rise up on Game of Thrones.

I have to keep reminding mysef that most women on MN understand that parents might want to talk about the issues their black children face, with other parents of black children. Things like sickle cell, hair, attitudes of certai medical staff etc.

Yet there is always someone who hasn't a clue, shoving their uninformed nose in, just because they need to prove they can.

Pathetic really.

@TheFirstMrsDV Yes, that thread did start in AIBU and then moved here. As you say, there were some awful responses, thanks for the support in calling it out.

It does get a bit wearing explaining 4c hair and how to care for it, to women who don't have it. A bit like Hair Groundhog Day when you get to my age. After decades, I just can't be arsed having the same conversation with a nosey stranger for the gazillionth time.

@BlackandGreen thanks for the honest response.
I would only ask because of my kids (five of them, all with different mixed hair) but I am aware that not every black person wants to give me free advice on hair care

We used to get a lot of drop ins on the SN parents and the bereaved parents threads. MN was able to stop them appearing on 'most active' I think. Either that or you had to opt in to seeing them.

I hope BMN can be the safe, exclusive safe it needs to be.

No, I just meant it is sad that people feel the need to exclude others of a different skin colour in order to feel safe.

Why do you think that might be?!

@TheFirstMrsDV Hope it's OK. I'll pm you re children