White women posting on Black Mumsnetters - all good?

[Sugarintheplum]

Hiya,

I'm just looking for your honest opinion here - feel free to get a new handle to respond to this one if you like (I do that sometimes!)

My view is this: I don't hugely object, partly because it's the internet, and I can't expect that to be truly for a devoted protected space, so it's kinda 'meh'. I just thought about it because of the 'are blonde women more attractive' thread, and there are lots of white women on it.

I've asked something similar before, and I ask it again here, if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?

If it is a belief that no space should be 'exclusive', i'd think Black Mumsnetters might turn one off completely - ugh, yuk, segregation. If it is a belief that well, one or two white women won't change things (do they? My opinion is that yes, a space with just black women in it talking black women things is materially changed by having white women in it) I can see that too maybe, only things do have a way of being taken over and before you know it black mumsnetters has very few black women at all posting. If it is 'I should be able to be wherever I choose, thank you!', or 'i just love being in chats with diverse groups, I 'm not thinking about it that way' I'd like to know too.

But mostly, black women, how do you feel about it?

Like I say, I'm cool about it, I just don't get it. If there were a Trans Mumsnetters, or Asian Mumsnetters, or LGBT Mumsnetters, or Young Mumsnetters, I wouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to post, I'm black straight and over 30. My children's partner is from a different ethnic group to me and if there were a group for mumsnetters from that community, again, I wouldn't feel any sort of need to post.

Anyway, on this I am truly musing.

Ta!

No one tried to kick anyone off the blonde thread.

OP could and probably should have made her point on there.

This thread feels stirry.

@NiceGerbil i don't know, i think all are welcome to post anywhere regardless of circumstances if the topic is of interest

I'm white and have read a few threads on here and have learnt a lot , especially the always keep your receipts issue ..the constant stresses of being black in a white world needs to be understood and illustrated by examples like that ...that's what contributes to white privilege, a concept I vaguely understood before but that one example really rammed it home .

@ginandbearit

I'm white and have read a few threads on here and have learnt a lot , especially the always keep your receipts issue ..the constant stresses of being black in a white world needs to be understood and illustrated by examples like that ...that's what contributes to white privilege, a concept I vaguely understood before but that one example really rammed it home .

Thanks for being a part of the conversation

I remember being at uni and i'd say probably most of my friends were lesbian, and they'd go to LGBT clubs and bars and I wouldn't go because those places were created as safe spaces,

Is this your passive aggressive way of telling someone non-Black to fuck off away from BMN? That's how it's coming across and another presumably BMNer applauds you for it.

I find it ironic that a group of people who've historically been excluded, unfairly judged, stereotyped, etc. for the colour of their skin then go onto a mainstream website and do the same back!

@NiceGerbil

No one tried to kick anyone off the blonde thread.

OP could and probably should have made her point on there.

This thread feels stirry.

It really is.

As someone else commented:

Very diplomatically worded, but clear

I read an interesting thread in active ( where I get my links from on my phone)
About the links between slavery and the current lack of resident dads in some black cultures.
I had pondered this link myself previously as I a work in a very deprived black community in the USA.
But I noticed the thread was from Black Mumsnet and wasn't sure my thoughts as a white person would be welcome.

I noticed there was a black mumsnetters topic. I understand it is not a place for me to come and air my views on issues that generally have nothing to do with me. I understand that black women move through British/Australian cultures that I live in very differently to me and want a place to discuss without my tuppence. I know sometimes my views are quite narrow due to me only living life in my body and with the privilege being white in England/Australia confers. Although I have learned a lot about difficulties faced by Aboriginal Australians and how African Australians are demonised by using my eyes and ears and not my voice.

I feel no need to comment on any thread that is not set up for me and getting all offended over none of my damn business.(I read the thread to check if OP wanted general comments). Women know we need spaces to talk about our lives and problems and successes without the male gaze. I guess black women want that space away from the white gaze. Generally I would say white women interceding on threads in black mumsnetter topic are rude and should keep their mouths shut. Our voice isn’t necessary in every discussion.

I do have views about whether blondes are more attractive but that might just be sour grapes.

I hope it’s ok to post.

I’m white and sometimes read threads but don’t contribute. I’m not sure what I would add? The world spends plenty of time hearing the perspective of white middle class women.

The thread about being blonde wasn’t about whether blonde women are attractive but whether it is a cultural norm to value their appearance over the appearance of a more diverse range of women. What would I offer to that as a white woman who benefits from cultural ideals about beauty? I’m surprised that other white women felt they could offer a valuable perspective that would be fresh and new.

It’s not necessary to join every conversation when your voice is already valued and prioritised.

You have men on mum's net and women that don't have children. This is an open forum, all sections can be viewed and posted in

Ok, I have never posted on a thread on here (I don’t think) before.

I’ve never come into this section but have clicked on the odd thread before in active convos and then not posted as I’ve realised what section it’s in.

I’ve just had a click through some of the threads in this section and have a few thoughts. Some threads I can clearly tell that my views would be useless and not welcomed. I have no experience of racism towards me and black people do not need a white person chipping in with their opinions I’m sure.

What about the post about cycling clubs in London? The poster doesn’t ask for one which is especially welcoming of minorities, if I knew a group would it be ok to recommend it?

What about the podcast thread which does ask in particular for podcasts about black women? I’m not black but I may have heard an amazing podcast about a black women?

Even the thread about private schools. The OP asks for experience of sending your kids to a private school when you’re an ethnic minority but also talks about not being wealthy when everyone is and would that affect the kids. If I’d clicked on that in act convos would it be acceptable to say well I’m not black so can’t answer your first part but we are as poor as anything, ds got a scholarship, everyone else is rich and this is how we’ve found it?

Dunno, and like I said I don’t post. But I feel sorry for the poster asking about cycling clubs with no response. There is a cycling topic/thread...she may get more luck there.

Hm but i dont think your examples are very fair talking about 'white women coming into black spaces' or your example of a group of black women going off for a matter and a white woman barging in, I think those are fundamentally different, I'd be surprised if any of the women (or maybe men) who posted on the thread perceive it the same way as joining in a black students union group at uni or the Bame network group at work for example. It's an app, and on mine the active thread titles are always bold with the topic in a very pale blue on a blue background so not that noticeable.

I understand why the conversations are needed and yes there is absolutely a full conversation to be had by solely black women but I think your ascribing too much intent to what's got to be a lot of people just using this app for chat. Some (me) will be sleep deprived from kids and probably end up boating on this topic, scotsnet or all sorts.

As a mixed heritage, white passing woman I'm not sure you'll want me either but feel like this thread was opened up intentionally to a wider audience

Depends on their reasons for posting. Asking about hair or heritage for their mixed race child, fine. Telling black women that there is no white privilege, not fine.

I think it was clear from the start that the premise of the BMN board was that only black posters could post there.

I don’t think it matters whether someone agrees or disagrees with that. It’s been made clear so I, for one, wouldn’t post there because of that.

Except this thread, which, as PP have said, was in Active.

As a side note I find it fascinating how many posters are earnestly saying "I saw a thread and didn't post because I thought there is nothing I can add to that, is it necessary for me to post, am I intruding, do I have a fresh new perspective"

I mean, fuck me, why aren't people applying that logic to all the threads
The amount of times a poster gets an absolute pile on with a thousand repetitive answers with people who were so desperate to add their two cents they didn't wait to see if it was already covered in 9 pages of answers

Until this post I did not know that there was a bmn. If I had I would not have posted unless opinions from non black women were being sought.

I don’t seek out threads on LGBT to express my opinions or on any other specialist board. I can see posting if the thread came up in active and I didn’t notice the board. I don’t feel the need to comment on boards set up for specific people, I don’t think my voice is so important to prioritise.

I bet the majority of posters on the ‘blonde’ thread did not clock what board it was on. I rarely search threads by board, just pick up from Active Conversations.

Also, if a thread is about someone (blonde people) surely they have to be able to at least comment?

But generally of course BMN needs to be a place for a black perspective, black centering.

I am white and only ever lurk on threads here. (I'm posting now because the question has been asked of white MNetters whether they post or not).

Someone gave the example of a thread asking for recommendations of books with black characters. I could post and mention books with black characters that I have enjoyed but if it's in the Black Mnetter's topic, I would conclude the poster wants recommendations from black Mnetters, who might see the books I have enjoyed very differently, for reasons I couldn't possibly know without walking in their shoes. I would expect that if the poster wanted recommendations from just anyone, rather than a black perspective, they'd post in, e.g. 'What we're reading'.

That's me done and back to lurking.

I hope non Blacks aren't banned as I love the cookery threads! FWIW I really supported the notion of a black board - a space where black women could post any issues pertinent to them in a discrete area that would be flagged up by other black women. I didn't mean though that non blacks were banned though.

Why would you feel the need though

I've posted on the authors and cookery threads as they aren't race based, they were just asking for recommendations. There are atheists posting in the Spirituality boards and non Muslims posting in the Muslim Tea Room threads, whilst not the majority they are all welcomed. Different people are interested in things, even when they don't directly affect them. I've learned so much about other cultures and ways of life from MN, it's really one of the biggest reasons I am here.

Hoping all will respond, black and non-black. I really want to know what are the thoughts of white women on: what are the reasons behind white people wanting to be in black spaces.

Then why post it in black mumsnet if overall you don't want non-black ethnicities to post there? If you're trying to keep it as a 'black space' (and I understand the reasons why) then surely starting a thread there inviting non-black opinions is counterproductive. Why not use a different board?

I only commented because I read this thread from active and saw that you actually said you wanted non-black opinions - I have no specific desire to be in black spaces - but as you started a thread asking for non-black opinions in a black space I thought I'd comment. But I'm still not entirely clear if it's actually what you want as this post is very confusing - you're inviting us to post in a space that you don't want us to post in....

So I'm confused now as to whether you're encouraging non-white posters to the black board or not?

Gah! and apologies - that should read I'm confused as to whether you're encouraging non-black posters to the black board or not! Told you I was confused!

It was made pretty clear when it was set up that BMN was intended to be an unwelcoming space to anyone who is not black. People from other ethnic minority backgrounds getting excited about it being set up were roundly told that the space is for black mumsnetters and they were not welcome there either. Set up their own.

It's an open forum. You may want to gatekeep who is allowed in, but as others have said when something shows up in active convos, not everyone creeps in sheepishly asking if they're allowed to post in the thread, is it OK if they post, are their opinions welcomed. If you're that bothered about it ask MN to hide the topic from active threads so you can sit in your corner with your sandwiches.

@FamilyOfAliens

I think it was clear from the start that the premise of the BMN board was that only black posters could post there.

I don’t think it matters whether someone agrees or disagrees with that. It’s been made clear so I, for one, wouldn’t post there because of that.

Except this thread, which, as PP have said, was in Active.

You say it was clear from the start that only black women could post - what makes you think that?

I’ve see. A few posts from white folk, I’ve not seen anyone told you cannot post here?

To reiterate, i'm black and don't always feel welcomed to post on BMN because of some of my life choices, so i wouldn't imagine the non-black folk "can" post

I do also think it's understandable that if you've started a thread specifically commenting on the attractiveness or otherwise of a specific group e.g. blondes, and that thread appears in active, then blondes will be drawn to comment on it unless it is clear in the title that you're speaking only about blond haired black women

You can ask MNHQ to hide the black MN board from Active to reduce any non-target traffic, but this happens in every board - it's not specific to this one. People who are single comment in relationships, people without kids comment in parenting - it's how open forums work. Half the time they'll click the thread from active and not notice which board it is.