White women posting on Black Mumsnetters - all good?

[Sugarintheplum]

Hiya,

I'm just looking for your honest opinion here - feel free to get a new handle to respond to this one if you like (I do that sometimes!)

My view is this: I don't hugely object, partly because it's the internet, and I can't expect that to be truly for a devoted protected space, so it's kinda 'meh'. I just thought about it because of the 'are blonde women more attractive' thread, and there are lots of white women on it.

I've asked something similar before, and I ask it again here, if it's called Black Mumsnetters, why might non-black women want to post? I can see why they might want to lurk and read, but what might make you want to be visible, present and contributing to that space?

If it is a belief that no space should be 'exclusive', i'd think Black Mumsnetters might turn one off completely - ugh, yuk, segregation. If it is a belief that well, one or two white women won't change things (do they? My opinion is that yes, a space with just black women in it talking black women things is materially changed by having white women in it) I can see that too maybe, only things do have a way of being taken over and before you know it black mumsnetters has very few black women at all posting. If it is 'I should be able to be wherever I choose, thank you!', or 'i just love being in chats with diverse groups, I 'm not thinking about it that way' I'd like to know too.

But mostly, black women, how do you feel about it?

Like I say, I'm cool about it, I just don't get it. If there were a Trans Mumsnetters, or Asian Mumsnetters, or LGBT Mumsnetters, or Young Mumsnetters, I wouldn't feel any sort of compulsion to post, I'm black straight and over 30. My children's partner is from a different ethnic group to me and if there were a group for mumsnetters from that community, again, I wouldn't feel any sort of need to post.

Anyway, on this I am truly musing.

Ta!

Surely it depends on what the thread is? Swapping cooking tips, hair care advice or book recommendations from black authors is harmless enough as many white people have some knowledge on those subjects through personal interests, black friends or family members. A white women muscling in on the 'online dating as a black woman' thread to give her opinion is obviously unwelcome.

I love the black mumsnetters section and regularly lurk around there. Hearing other people's voices and experiences is invaluable if we want to grow as people and lose some of our own personal prejudices.

[quote IamthatIam]@TellItToTheStars I agree with those who say it’s not okay to post clearly prejudice/racist generalisations about a group of people.

You are entitled to have and share opinions about black men but don’t be surprised or offended when your prejudiced and racist views are challenged and called out.

You don’t get to excuse your views or give them legitimacy by say “I’m a black woman”.[/quote]
My views are not predjudiced or racist. I'm calling out facts and you very well know it. It is something that needs to be spoken about and taught to our young black men so they can rise above their behaviour.

The way I see the area for Black Mumsnetters in terms of how white people operate in that space is this:

• comment on generic things - fine
• invalidating the experience of Black Munsnetters - not fine

A lot of white people are so used to being dominant in every space of the world, that equality feels like oppression.

A board on Mumsnet where Black women's voices can be heard without being shut down is invaluable on a site as popular as this.

Nobody is saying that white people shouldn't be involved in the discussion, however some white people aren't able to contribute without centreing themselves, or dominating the conversation, as so often happens (especially) to Black women, in real life. And that's where the problem lies.

Please be sensitive to the space you're in, and the weight your voice carries, would be my request.

@TellItToTheStars, I’m sorry but I missed the things you said are facts about black men that do not apply to men of all races.

Can you say again what these facts are that are not also facts about where men, for example?

*white men.

From the posts I saw of yours, everything you said about black men could be said about other men. There is good and bad in all races. You only need to look on mumsnet here to see the number of women complaining about their other half. I’m pretty sure it’s not all black men especially as mumsnet is predominantly white women.

[quote IamthatIam]@TellItToTheStars, I’m sorry but I missed the things you said are facts about black men that do not apply to men of all races.

Can you say again what these facts are that are not also facts about where men, for example?[/quote]
cough Boris Johnson cough

One reason non-black people may want to contribute on the black thread is to learn about aspects of black culture, opinions etc. Or as others have said, to advise on certain things which is within their field if expertise.

Also, this may sound ignorant, but how do you know if ‘IFancyBoris’ is black, white or purple with green spots. As far as I know, no-one actually polices your skin colour when posting. In many ways, that makes everyone equal, as we don’t know who the person is behind the user name - young/old, rich/poor, black/white etc.

I do get that there are certain issues that only apply to black people such as haircare etc, but it shouldn’t preclude anyone from posting in this board.

This thread has really depressed me

@Cleverpolly3

Why?

Interesting question, I’m white and I wouldn’t generally comment in this section, I might read for interest/education. But a quick skim of the top few threads, there is nothing I could contribute. I can see how there might be an occasional place to comment - for example in the thread about toddler books the requirements of the op are very specific so as long as you were recommending something that met them then I see no reason why your own race would preclude a response. I would feel differently if I was shut out from reading though, that would feel unreasonable.

I've commented before knowing it was 'for black MN's'. For me its nothing to with race but if I feel like i could leave a helpful comment about something I will, regardless of ethnicity.

@Phoenix21 Boris is the exception to the rule

Mick Jagger?

I wouldn't wish to dissuade white/non-black women from posting here. There have been some thoughtful contributions from non black/white women. I do feel as if some women don't understand the purpose/need for this board.

I, a black woman, have found the recent disagreement regarding dating only white men issue quite interesting. I now feel more keenly about our need for spaces to argue amongst ourselves.

I also never look at the topic. I just look at active threads.

@JayDot500 thank you for saying that and i would have liked to get into the issues of dating white men but i was shut down with "why are you dating white men". I still think all are welcome to post

I think as others have said it depends on the conversation and what kind of contribution you want to make to it. I'm mixed race and enjoy Black Mumsnetters, there are many threads I just lurk on because I don't really have much to contribute, but I do learn a lot from there and I think it is an important part of Mumsnet. Racial issues are something that I have always struggled with here and I find Black Mumsnet a welcoming place.

I think as long as non black mumsnetters are considerate and thoughtful in their contributions its fine, genuine positive interest is good but I have seen some horrible goady posts on there from people who still obviously have a problem with there being a Black Mumsnet section.

I'm white and i've commented, knowing it's Black mumsnet. I've only commented on threads which are general though, and never "because" it's black mumsnet if that makes sense .

I think the line is to not go on to a thread to offer a white woman view when it's clearly not called for. On saying that i did comment on the blonde thread, i took it to be general. I also don't announce myself as white generally. I hate it when men rock up to the other threads and act like we should all be suddenly impressed because a man has deigned to join us so I've assumed it would feel like that to black woman on mumsnet if i did similar.

1992serpent

"Depends on their reasons for posting. Asking about hair or heritage for their mixed race child, fine. Telling black women that there is no white privilege, not fine."

Just about sums it up for me.

Posters like @Quaagars (and others struggling to remember handles) are non-black and strike a wonderful balance in posting their opinion, experiences as well as explaining for the umpteenth time why certain views or comments are not welcome in this space -because it is exhausting to explain or call out goady posters who deny our experiences constantly.

I reember when it was set up their were those who said whotes were not welcome and some said Bame were not welcome. But now we are all welcome if we have something to offer at shouldn,t it be that way. I don,t go on Craic net as I don,t live in irland and a not Irish. (but I suppose i could as I believe my grandmother came from Irish stock.) But I have lived with mised race children when growing up and do have family that come unde the "bame cattagory.2 But they probably would not use that term.

Sory for the typing errors.

Wow. Interesting thread.

I think this space should be centred around issues from Black women. I dont think it is a problem for anyone else to contribute or make a relevant thread of their own. If someone who isn't Black deliberately tries to steer a thread to centre on them then I dont think that's right.

This can be a space for other ethnicities to learn from Black women, and in that, it may be necessary to ask a question or post sometimes. There was a post about whether its okay to wear a jumper with a black santa, from what I assume was non black person. I dont see anything wrong with that as she was trying to get a black persons opinion.

As for the dating thread, I started that to find out if other black women had had a similar experience. I didnt like what it turned in to in the end. All I will say if im more than happy for black women to have a discussion about black men and even stereotypes of black men - whether they're real to us or not! What i dont like is to see is ALL of black men put down. I think if you want to date other white men then great but I dont get the logic that ' i date white men because black men are xyz'. I can't get my head around it. I personally have date arsehole white men and arsenole black men...these experiences didn't make me write off all black or all white men.

This board should welcome all conversations from a black women but we have to also be prepared to challenge and have appropriate discussions when we disagree.

@Kanaloa

I’ve replied to a couple of posts in Black mumsnetters - one asking about suggestions for a black baby doll and the other asking for any cartoons with black characters. I replied because I knew some answers that nobody else had said and I thought they might be helpful.

I think it depends OP if someone is giving input such as this (I remember this poster commenting at the time) it’s fine because the poster seems to have a genuine interest.

I know where OP is coming from but I don’t think it’s as clear cut because someone may be white and have mixed race children.... they maybe white but have grown up around a black culture and be quite knowledgeable and I think that’s the key point knowledge or wanting to learn and understand

@june2007

I reember when it was set up their were those who said whotes were not welcome and some said Bame were not welcome. But now we are all welcome if we have something to offer at shouldn,t it be that way. I don,t go on Craic net as I don,t live in irland and a not Irish. (but I suppose i could as I believe my grandmother came from Irish stock.) But I have lived with mised race children when growing up and do have family that come unde the "bame cattagory.2 But they probably would not use that term.

I think OP may feel that you can’t relate to some topics (black) for instance Afro hair I don’t think as a white person it’s comparable English hair and Afro hair! You don’t know the struggle so OP does have a valid point to some extent.

White woman here.

Often see threads in active threads, see that they are from Black mumsnetters and don't engage with the thread for that reason. I just see it as a space where my input isn't needed.

I saw this one as an exception, forgive me if I'm wrong.

I agree with you white opinions aren't needed on threads in this topic. FWIW. If I was posting in a female only space I would be pissed off if men started chiming in. That's all I have to compare it to.