AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

lol, we had our chimney swept last week and my son was horrified we would be such awful heartless people!
Luckily it was a big fireman doing it as a side hustle, so we were cleared of child slavery.

Check the books for anything that’s horrendous, before reading. I read, for example, Mr Galliano’s Circus to my two eldest. DD1 (then 5 or 6) was following the book with me, and wanted to know why I’d read the dog’s name as Trigger, when it began with… well, you get the gist. After that I was much more careful to read the books first.

I absolutely vetoed my children reading my first editions of the X of Adventure books, until my dc were old enough to understand racism. These books are shockingly racist. I am pleased to note that the new editions have removed the overt racism, leaving Kiki the Parrot and the exciting adventures.

I did read Five on a Treasure Island to a Year 2 class once, and they loved it. But they were completely shocked when I left them on a cliff hanger one day (Timmy had a gun pointed at him)*. And they were much faster than I was at their age in working out what the storm was going to throw up.

I think it’s a matter of using discretion.

*Edited to add that as this was March 2020, some of the children never found out what happened to Timmy. It’s probably traumatised them!

I'd be interested to know whether you remember the content of the books that were read to you as a small child - or whether you just remember the time that your parent spent with you reading them to you? I clearly remember the cuddle with my Dad as he was doing the silly voices but not what he was reading tbh.

You could suggest he just reads certain ones to himself. He doesn't need his child as an excuse to read them.

For the less bad offenders, replace words and avoid some bits. Like in The Tiger who came to tea, in my version it's mummy's beer.

Sorry this happened to your dd. I feel a lot of posters saying it isnt harmful may not have a child who could see a book or be shown one where their own culture is being depicted in a racist way. Full disclosure I'm not from a minority background but I'm a teacher and its something I'm really conscious about in my classes.

Your child won’t remember the content, just dad reading to her. I doubt he’ll continue to read the same books for years, it’s just a period of nostalgia while he’s grieving.

Maybe just some of the more offensive into a more remote storage area….

I remember my dad reading The Horse and his Boy to us.
My children remember me reading Oscar Wilde's Happy Prince, and the Selfish Giant to them.
Because I was literally sobbing at the end.

I'm reading the William books to DS at the moment, he loves them. There is one story though where William, after watching a theatre performance and falling in love with acting, covered himself in brown greasepaint and is mistaken by the adults for an African boy (who had been brought over by a missionary to show the people at church who their charitable contributions were going to).

For god sakes that's your problem? Their classic books I'd rather them than the crap they put out now

I was also confused by Meg and Mog.

I did read bits of Struwelpeter to my kids ( not the racist ones). They were both fascinated and appalled. Small kids do quite like a bit of gore. Dahl's revolting rhymes and the original version of Grimms fairytales also went down well.

I have my collection of The Famous Five, from the 1980's. I've read them to my son (who's now nearly 16), and he absolutely loved them. I explained to him that they were written at a time, when men and women had very defined roles in life. For example Uncle Quentin sitting down smoking his pipe, whilst Aunt Fanny rushed around preparing meals and cooking. Or when Julian, Dick and George were camping, it was always Anne cooking the food, sweeping the floor etc. The boys always went out collecting fire wood!

My son has read a mixture of different books, from my old ones, to new books. He hasn't turned into someone who thinks a woman should be chained to the kitchen sink! It's all about balance. Reading older type books isn't going to make a huge amount of difference to your child's outlook.

I personally wouldn't want my kids to be reading dated books with racist themes. IMO modern books are probably more enjoyable for today's kids and aren't likely to contain problematic language. But children are inevitably going to encounter racist attitudes somewhere, whether it's the internet or their classmates or older kids in the neighbourhood. It's important to teach them how to deal with that.

I am not saying it can't be harmful, I'm saying it's actually a great way to get some of this into the open and start some important conversations. Even little kids can get the concept of people being wrong and learning from their mistakes.

I couldn't actually take turns reading Tom Sawyer with my husband as I cannot say the n-word. Just can't say it, my throat closes up and I feel a bit sick. But really important to know how terrible it is and the context and to ensure my kids know this - and a book is a decent way to start these conversations.

I was at a conference where the discussion of whether problematic texts
, especially children's books, should not be circulated or accessible anymore.

Several people with black ethnicity said the WORST thing you can do is to hide these away and pretend they never existed. If children don't know about them they will never understand why we are where we are today with so much inequity and discrimination.

Instead, do as your DH is doing. Read and explain.

How did you handle it with your DS, did you contextualise it or just not mention it? I suppose I find that harmless enough given that many people then wouldn't have seen or met many African boys, and the goal wasn't to be mocking.

I think there's always going to be things that jar in any book written that long ago, but I honestly think it's a useful lesson on how society used to be different and how things have changed over time.

Ahem...

I don't remember any books read to me as a pre-schooler. I can just about remember nursery school, but I certainly can't remember much.

I remember reading myself once I was at primary school and I have no doubt that lots of it was dreadful guff. I'm fairly sure that there were books about gollliwogs and a whole lots of awful classist stuff about jolly good types vs chavvy povvos. However, I knew that I was reading story books that weren't about real life. Real life was infinitely harder and filled with more complex injustices than story books that all seemed to have a happy ending.

I know it sounds simplistic @Dirtymirrors and I'm not saying that any of the racism / sexism / classism or any of the gazillion unconscious bias or even conscious bias etc in kids books is right, but honestly there are so many bigger things to worry about than stories that your DC won't remember.

Meg snd mog? The only one I have is where she turns her friends into bats???

Anyway gollys ans N words get removed by me, wait 6 months then "pop those somewhere safe"

Rupert is absolutely truly awful in places, so I would definitely put aside the most questionable ones.

I don’t think that for very young preschool children it’s that helpful to expose them to stuff that is really awful and then explain it away.

But I have been reading classics to my school age kids and abridging them, explaining wrong things, talking about society having changed etc. And my eldest now stops to question things - she spotted that Peter in the secret Seven was a sexist mansplainer without me having to point it out (she obviously didn’t use the word mansplainer!).

😂
Although that does give children quite an interesting first-hand perspective on world events. That one was written in 1938, so one Mr Hitler would have been getting quite a lot of news coverage, which then reflected in children's imaginative play.

I think you are worrying unnecessarily. Children understand what is fiction. I grew up reading The Three Little Pigs, The Billy Goats Gruff and books about witches, wicked step mothers, giants and plenty of Enid Blyton. I’m fine.

My kids and grandchildren loved the Blyton books. They read both new and old books when they were little.. 🤷‍♀️

I am ethnically Indian and have lots of family members in Malaysia and India. It is still quite common in both of these countries to see Enid Blyton on sale and Janet and John books are still in print. Modern cuts will have taken some bits out, but it is popular as it presents a sort of idealised version of Englishness (as do Ladybird books). This can be very comforting for adults as well as children. Some of the original books from the 1950s do have some subtle and not so subtle bits of racism. I went to a Museum recently (Black Country Museum), which has an old working Library with books from this age which might make your hair curl. I would exercise some discretion, but equally do not overdo it.

"He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD."
It sounds like he is reading them to her responsibly and it might raise some good educational discussion points.