AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

Obviously some things are shocking to us now, but for the most part older children’s books are better (no stultifyingly boring “list” stories) and if a story is good, it’s good.

When I was young (late 70s) there was a purge on books that would make children envious - fgs! Although my chance of attending a boarding school was zilch I devoured Mallory Towers and tales of children living in big old houses with nursery teas etc.

I saw yesterday that Horrible Histories repeats were eliminating episodes on child labour eg chimney sweeps and so on. Sanitising the past imo is a crime.

If there was ever anything in a book, or on TV like that when our children were younger I'd point out that it wasn't a good thing and the reasons why and then move on.

Imo in parenting it's better to discuss things than pretend they don't exist.

Did you read these kinds of books as a child OP? There’s probably far worse stereotypes and ideologies in modern books, your DC will be fine, just as your DH is I assume?

This is a really interesting thread. I used to enjoy Enid Blyton, Rupert, Meg & Mog. I then made the mistake of buying some Meg & Mog books for my DC (online, so couldn't flick through them first). I was horrified! I'm desperately trying to lose them....

I'm on the fence about how to deal with older books as a general issue - I think it depends on your kid. Though we live in what is traditionally white, middle class, area, DC's school is multicultural and we also border a diverse area. DC also gets plenty of cultural exposure as we often go into London, talk about travel, etc. Rightly or wrongly, I'm a little bit reluctant to bring up race/religion at this stage as she doesn't notice differences, and it's almost like i don't want to put those thoughts in her mind. But I know this is counterproductive and idealistic. I like the idea of finding the more modern versions.

I tried reading Noddy to my then toddlers,and realised I was having to edit too much. Toddlers dont need to exoerience outdated attitudes.

But books aimed at 7+... it can be good to discuss how things have changed. How some words are now considered inexcusable where they used to be descriptive (like the Dambusters dogs name).

Im pretty sure if Enid Blyton was writing today her books woukd ve the same category as Rainbow Fairies etc. They are nice easy reading, not great works of literature. Old doesnt always mean better.

When I was a girl. Half a century ago. Enid Blyton books were seen as very sub par.
Lazy writing, stereotypes. The lot.
When my children were young, her books were barely available.
I find it amazing that she's popped back into the zeitgeist.

I had this conversation a few times when my daughter was little. We read little house on the prairie and the secret garden (so surprisingly racist!) and my husband read Tom Sawyer. She likes the classics. It actually spawned some great chats about racism and classism and sexism and she’s grown (well she’s 13 now) into a massive feminist and intensely opinionated young adult. I think it’s actually great to really show how far we’ve come and books are a great way to start some tricky conversations. If you’re contextualising them properly and she’s enjoying it I’d leave them be.

I heavily edited my old books when reading them with ds but really just used a lot of them as learning tools.

BBC editing out bits of Horrible Histories for being too horrible is very ironic. The whole point is it was bad history!

Tom Sawyer is a great book. Why would you need to edit it?

Children who are minorities don’t have this option as they’ll be told soon enough. So much better to get ahead of it before your child is the problem. The first time my daughter was bullied for being Jewish half the parents involved were totally shocked and apologetic (the other half… were neither). Best to be purposeful about it before they pick up things elsewhere.

back in the 90s my mum would read me Enid Blyton books but change all the names, so the girls would lead the adventure and the boys would make the sandwiches. Could be an option just to change a few details as he reads to reduce the stereotypes?

Meg and Mog?
Why?
It's about a witch and a cat isn't it?

@Gabbycat245 i just spent several minutes tryng to work out racism in the Mog the Cat books.
Then realising that Meg and Mog was a diffrent series.

Well they will probably read Of Mice and Men when they are at school. Read about the holocaust too.

Literature has the power to offend, yes, but moreso the power to educate. The pulp my kids were given to read (Chip and Pin or some shit) were absolute dross. But useful nonetheless. As kids we were avid readers of comics and this carried across to books on the back of it. Someone mentioned Captain Hurricane above. Yes, I remember him. And Battle and Commando comics too. It was 30 years after WW2, recent events really, so there was entire family links to that and the terminology was rather jingoistic I agree. Meanwhile, very first story in the 1978 Action annual uses incredibly racist terminology! From the bully. Towards the new kid who happens to be of another colour. The bully gets his comeuppance as the new kid prevails, or indeed thrives, which is good, a few lessons in that story, but it would be totally cancelled now on the back of the words.

I think you should consider how a rounded read builds tolerance and resilience and older books often have a key role in this.

And don't read the old testament 😉

My dm and df barred Rupert and im very old! They didnt really like Enid Blyton, thought it was inappropriate. Mr pink whistle etc. But the school books were ok and famous five. And pippi longdtocking, mrs pepperpot, mrs apple. Dd still loves these:)

Your dh is reminiscing. Your dd is probably not listening anyway. Make sure she has other books and feels ok to say ' can we have this one tonight?'

You can also ask her if she likes the rupert books. Did he read winnie the pooh? Maybe swap them out.

An elderly aunt gave a copy to my older brother as a small boy, as he was still sucking his thumb. It terrified the life out of him and my dad was furious - he flung it on top of a cupboard!

I would recommend the William books for parents wanting really well-written classic children's stories. They're obviously reflective of the time, but there's nothing specifically offensive or jarring in them at all, and they're just such fun and very funny - actually enjoyable for adults too.

You say your husband discusses the themes and caricatures with your DC and explains why they’re outdated.

I personally think this is doing much more for their education than raising them in a sanitised bubble with only modern kids lit where you pretend racism has never existed. They will learn about context! Thankfully.

Oh gosh I love Rupert, it's very un- PC, but when I was little I didn't know that and it just gave me a sense of adventure and magic.

As long as those ideas are not perpetuated in the home and countered with other information it will be absolutely fine.

Posters saying reading these books in the past didn't make them racist is questionable. The fact that even the slighest bit of racism in these books isn't bothering you is grim. Second - all it takes is for a 5 year old to bring that book into school or tell everyone about it or use the outdated terms towards other children and then you have a bigger issue.

Parents/schools also smacked kids years ago and a lot of adults now say they turned out fine. Not for a second does it make it right or acceptable. Why should racist books be any different?

I'm not going to read a book with racist charactures to my child, there's a difference between a book about racism as opposed to a racist book. I also saw a post where someone said they were more affected by the sexism in books, and its interesting how offence is taken at that but its fine to depict racist images of people or use animals to get that point across.

I meant to add your dh is in a state of grief as well so give him some grace here. You can still have an eye over what dc is reading.

I'm sorry this happened to your daughter and you and thank you for making me reflect on my approach. Sadly I hear lots about Jewish children being bullied (and antisemitism generally) through my work, but I suppose I just thought well my kid wouldn't do that - but you're right. First kid, just started school, I am still learning!

Rupert is offensive? Do you mean Rupert the bear? He was my childhood favourite. How so offensive?

Oh OK let them read 'twas the night before pride instead.

Seriously? Always stick with old books

🤣

@Zoopetsome very questionable racial stereotyping....