AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

Did anyone else get the Hurricane and Victor comics? 1960s, mostly gung-ho WW2 dramas sanitised for kids. "Look out, it's the yellow peril!" - "Blast those sausage-eating squarehead Krauts!" 👀

None of this made us prejudiced against Germans or Japanese. Our parents took us to Germany on holidays, and all we knew about Japan was the art, origami and kimonos. As PPs have said, children are used to reading of fantasy worlds and are pretty good at separating 'story' elements from those that are more like real life.

... While typing this, I thought of the sizeable proportion of Mumsnetters who disbelieve any situation which doesn't reflect their own lives. It seems the instinct to dismiss an unfamiliar experience as fiction may be many times stronger than that to believe?

Seriously? You need to get out more!

Leave rupert alone 😭
Struwwelpeter on the other hand....stuff of nightmares! (If that's what you mean by the books from the '50s)

Seriously? You need to get out more
sorry, this was repeated

I figure if they can work out real animals don't actual speak words and other make beleive things in books they can work out what is appropriate behaviour or words themselves same as the ridiculous warnings before tv programs written 30+ years ago, people can think even children

Juat because something is in a book doesn't make it true

Did you ever watch ‘Trying’ on tv? There is a bit the grandparents gift the mother’s old books to their grandkids and reassure the parents that they’d crossed out the racist bits with a marker. The mum opens one and it’s all just marker pen other than words like ‘the’ and ‘he’ 🤣

Hilarious but a real point - most people don’t want their kids to read books with outdated stereotypes or use of the N word etc

Also to get worked up about literal books when your child has a 99% chance of being exposed to all sorts of internet crap before the age of 13 (that would make your hair turn white if you thought about it) is an Interesting take.

Yeah but Blyton used the N word. I’m pretty sure my kids have never even heard that word. The idea of such a hateful word coming out of my lovely child’s mouth as they say ‘mummy what does N_ mean?’ makes me feel really sad. Just like i wouldn’t have them read books with swear words in.

I was brought up in that era, and optimistically believe I don’t have a racist bone in my body…
But I do wonder, as I slip into my dotage, whether some of those racist tropes will begin to emerge inadvertently. They are so deeply culturally embedded, and as I become older, will I become that dreadful racist harridan in the care home 😮😮

I grew up with Rupert and Enid Blyton as well as other books from my mum's childhood - but my parents were also explicitly anti-racist and feminist, and talked to me about big issues from a young age. I also read books like to Kill a Mockingbird, Roll of Thunder hear my cry and I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings with my dad when I was in primary school. Those conversations with my parents about injustice were what formed my opinions.

Raggety will freak her out but apart from that vile creature, she'll be ok

rupert features tribes of coons running amok. So not good really

Yeah. I get it, I feel nostalgic about old books too, but that doesn't mean they should all be brought out and read to our children.

The way I would see it, the actual harm being done to your child at this point is minimal to none, compared to the pain your husband is going through. As a preschooler it will mostly be going over her head.

However, in a few weeks/ months time, whenever the grief feels a little less raw, if he hasn't put them away, I would talk to him about it and ask him to keep them for his own enjoyment.

There are versions of Enid Blyton etc which have been edited to be more in line with modern values. You could get those if he's insistent that your child needs to hear these stories.

At the end of the day, it's OK to stick to your guns about not wanting your child being read racist nonsense. I understand the grief and nostalgia, but this would ultimately be a hill I'd die on if she got to school age and he still wanted to read this stuff to her. At some point, he needs to put it in its place.

It's fine to have good feelings about what we enjoyed in the past, but recognise they are not right for our children in the present.

I'd stand my ground on this.

I introduced my children to the phrase "handmaiden to the patriarchy " when they started reading the Famous Five. The books were actually a very good vehicle for discussing sexual stereotyping and sexism

That sounds fun.

😂 No. You can't revert to something you never were!

If, on the other hand, your delirium tends towards the belief that you're a square-jawed British war hero in a flight jacket, or his plucky little Cockney sidekick, all bets will be off.

Yup, her kids are probably watching Andrew Tate videos in their rooms.

Thank you. I agree with both of you. I will look through in more detail keeping this in mind.

Its one of them. Not the worst.

I think its about balance and context.

I read the Laura Ingalls Wilder Little House books with my DD when she was younger: they are full of misogynistic attitudes and outright racism towards native Americans. But they are also wonderful stories and incredibly interesting historical artefacts.

When we read them I would point out that the perspective the family had on native Americans is by modern standards deeply offensive but explained that as pioneers on native American land they were ignorant and also scared.

I don’t think shielding children from attitudes which are now considered offensive or inappropriate is the solution. Talk through them with your children, point out where things jar with today’s society. Its a good way to learn about how and why attitudes change.

Oh dear, I really have heard it all now.

It makes me wonder how people like you manage to employ the skills to navigate life.

I will be doing my best to avoid the worst of this too.

So you would be happy with a book that depicts slaves being whipped as the correct outcome? The language I believe you can work out without me having to write it.

The problem is that you are fairly powerless here (they are likely to be exposed through friends and peers) and I actually think shielding your kids from anything that might shock or offend doesn’t do them any favours.

Older books have more varied vocab, and it’s good to see that social perspectives and children’s lives change over time, I’ve read some older books with my children and had to discuss it, (eg, queer means something different these days etc.) and it’s interesting to discuss this when they are 5 or over. Also that there are certainly some things we are saying now that people will be horrified by in 50 years time.

But some books are just too, too much. I couldn’t manage Rupert myself. There are adult books I can’t read for the same reasons, some Raymond chandler just has too much casual racism to read. Just pick and choose a few. Your husband read these books and I assume he’s not a massive racist?

What did Rupert do i cant rremember enough to know why its questionable.