AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

I read my DC origionals of some Enid Blyton books and E Nesbitt books. I think you just need to be selective, chat along with the story and provided they're just a part of your childs overall exposure to the world, its fine.
I'd add my own comments in if a character said something inappropriate.
Book: "Girls can't climb trees" Me: "Isn't that silly, of course they can!"
Or explain that a long time ago people thought the girls had to make the picnic and only boys were brave, but we know now that's wrong.
I think older books contain a rich vocabulary and detail of story that contemporary ones often lack.

The child will be fine, subject to a few little steers from the adult who is reading to them (not a full-on struggle session, though. Just a bit of context).

Children very readily absorb the idea of storyland as a place that is faraway and different. If they didn't they would all be fretting about wolves and murderous stepmothers.

And they are emerging into a world that has movement, history, radically changing attitudes and customs. Why would you think that the best way to prepare them for that evolving social reality would be to pretend that it had been statically correct for all eternity?

ETA: Looking at the post following mine, I just wanted to add that any horrendous words can be silently edited by the reading adult, replaced with something not harmful

Older books tend to be more well written, with richer language, so that's beneficial for your child's literacy development. Just explain the parts that aren't good. Many of us grew up reading these older books, without anyone giving us the context of certain parts, yet grew up to have decent values because we had decent parents, which it sounds like your child has so no need to worry.

In a couple of them yes. Others are much more borderline

My DD and I have enjoyed reading older books and being shocked at the amount of slapping in Malory Towers, for example.

But DP got given some old Rupert books and they are HORRIBLY racist. I don’t mean just outdated, they’re just appalling. We were looking through them for a laugh but actually just found them distasteful and put them somewhere nobody else would come across them and think we were intentionally reading anything so awful. Just everything you can think of - racist slurs, stereotyped imagery of the worst kind, everything.

I deliberately bought and read a lot of older books with my kids. I found the vocabulary and stories were often more interesting, varied and complex. As someone says above, i would abridge, adapt or skip any bits i felt were inappropriate in a modern context or as the grew older discuss why things were outdated or inappropriate and how things had moved on. I think a lot can be learned. You stay 'horrendous charicatures' if this really is the case then I would pick my battles and suggest to DH that you maybe set aside the books you are least comfortable with.

At this age, the important stuff is exposure to a wide vocabulary which older books have (no dumbing down back then), good syntax which older books have, rhythm and rhyme, cadence and, most importantly of all, parental attention.

It’s particularly nice that your Dh can say “I read this when …” and “so and so gave this to me. Gosh, I loved it. Let me show you a photo of so and so”.

As someone who grew up on Fifties and Sixties books, the subject matter is immaterial. That comes from your conversations, observations and experiences.

I mean, some of those toys in toyland tales were a bit sus 😂

I don’t have an issue with it. The fact is that books will often display a reality that is different to what a child experiences first hand which gives opportunities to talk about all sorts of matters.

My 5 year old asks why the books he gets at school have lots of dark people in them when everybody in his class is white. He just thinks it’s a bit strange. No big drama.

I think because this is AIBU you’ll be getting lots of definitive responses either way, but personally I can see both sides! And genuinely, I think the fact you’re even sensitive & self aware enough to be asking the question makes me think you’ll probably get the balance right. My own feeling is to let your husband read the books to your DC as the connection to his own childhood is so lovely but to also read modern books that are diverse and celebratory of other cultures. The Book Trust probably has loads of age appropriate inspiration.

I introduced my children to the phrase "handmaiden to the patriarchy " when they started reading the Famous Five. The books were actually a very good vehicle for discussing sexual stereotyping and sexism.

@Dirtymirrors I think it depends very much on the books. A bit of stereotyping I was prepared to let pass (with discussion). But really blatant racism or constant, insidious demeaning language- no.

Unless one of the books is Little Black Sambo I’d probably just omit any offensive language, use them as a teaching moment and mix up her reading experiences with more modern books. I wouldn’t risk upsetting your bereaved husband over it.

I was born in 1955. I loved Epaminondas! I never once associated the characters in the book with real people.

I suppose there'd be a tiny social risk - as a small child, I'd take every opportunity to say "Epaminondas! You ain't got da sense you was born wid'." This would probably upset people with high cultural sensitivities today. However, I was only a little kid. If my adults had told me it wasn't good to say this around other people, I wouldn't have said it.

I think I would try and draw the line with the very worst 'offenders' but let the majority be left on the bookshelf. I'd just try and steer your dc towards other choices when it's reading time, rather than insist your husband put all the old books away. Are any of them...OK? Surely some must be.

I haven't read it for 45 years, but it's all animals isn't it?

mixed race family here - my grandparents passed on some of their old books, some of which are highly highly inappropriate - one specifically towards the other half of my son's ethnicity/race.

My approach is simple though - if the book is entirely awful, or the whole point is to be explicitly racist, then I won't read it to him. But if it has family meaning, I won't get rid of it either. I trust him to be able to understand that times have moved on and it is a good example of how something in one period can be "acceptable" but then society develops and that shifts.

If the books 90% good wholesome content, but just has a few questionable parts, I'll read it, and potential sensor out a word or two, or explain bits as they come up.

I’m inclined to think that the discussion will be valuable. Especially with the way political thinking is going in some parts, kids need to know why some of these incidents happen and a children’s book with clear examples of what used to be acceptable are a good place to start. You can use them for classism, sexism, xenophobia, all sorts.

I read all the old stuff in the 80s as a kid and I grew up pretty left wing liberal, so I wouldn’t worry too much. It’s the more general way you live and behave and speak that has the bigger influence on the values your kids form.

Yes, I'd like to know why Rupert isn't PC ?!

I think this is sensible and broadly reflects the approach that we took as a mixed race family.

Interesting question. Growing up in the 1970s, I had lots of "classic" books that would be so problematic now - Little Black Sambo springs to mind. Also Rupert. But I can barely remember them and I don't think they made me a racist (hopefully).

The ones that did more damage were the Victorian and Edwardian stories I read when I was older, with their ethos that girls should be meek and mild, uncomplaining, self-sacrificing even. The Water Babies was particularly grating (even though it was about a little boy). Frances Hodgson Burnett, too.

What Katy Did (1872) was one of the worst! Poor Katy really got punished for being "headstrong".

We have a few Rupert books which are fine and don't have any particular stereotypes or anything going on, so maybe take it on a book by book basis? However I ultimately did ditch my old Noddy books, which had been my favourite as a child, as adjusting the language as I went along was a pain and my daughter wasn't really that into them anyway! We do enjoy Tintin but some of them are too far outside the realms of acceptable. Again, case by case.

But I would also say, I'm selective about what modern books we read too! I find some of them presenting frustratingly idealised worlds, whereas I think a lot of older books don't suffer from having to present everyone and everything as good.

I grew up with Enid Blyton and Noddy books. I’ll be the first person to say that gollis are offensive. I’m the wokest leftie I know.

The books, in isolation are fine. My parents had a great deal of faults but they were not racist or homophobic etc in any way and those are the values they passed on.

I wouldn’t worry. I read all the old school Enid Blyton and read TinTin comics and didn’t end up racist. Interestingly, I know of several family friends who tried to raise their kids in a progressive way, things like teaching boys to be feminists etc and banning problematic books and their kids have turned out pretty right wing as adults. So I’d drop it and stop policing the reading.

Some are absolutely fine. I have no problem with at least half. Well no real issues, I find a few of them daft but definitely no worse than plenty of modern ones.

I think that the Rupert was a bit of an 'oh' moment when there was a story about him visiting a desert island and how the people who lived there were portrayed. There are about 3 shelves of Rupert so it isn't just 1 book to 'loose'. I then started looking at what was on the shelf and some of them I found massively uncomfortable. I think the ones with golllywogs and also one that is pictures of people around the world but honestly such grim caricatures.

I really don't want to upset my husband. It has been a very difficult time and he is discussing why these things are wrong. I have loads of Enid Blyton and older myself and fully intend to read and discuss these with DD as she gets older. I am not against old books.

I suppose I hadn't looked at what he had put on her bookshelf then got worried.

I think that the most offensive may just be put to one side for a bit and I will discuss with him in say 6 months or a year when things are less raw. I may have to accept a bit of Rupert but I might rearrange to keep the worst on the higher shelves.