AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

This is a very good observation.
THEY ARE FICTION.
We soon learn to differentiate between reality and fictional worlds when we are quite young. ( I don't know how but we do).
Rupert's world is so different to ours and we do not try and apply in our world what is in Rupert's. We know a dog can't talk to a bear, we know neither will spend all day on their hind legs. It doesn't need explaining, it's instinct. But we still enjoy the story because we suspend disbelief which is the essence of fiction.

I find it so sad that people can’t just accept that something written in the 50s/ 60s may not be as politically correct as people might like, different times, different views, not necessarily correct but does that mean we should ban everything, be honest, pretty much everyone will be offended by something

We were clearing out my grandparent’s house and found a lot of books with questionable depictions of other cultures in. Some were outright racist. My mum gave them to me and I threw them in the bin.

I think if you’re reading to your child and explaining the depictions are wrong then that’s fine but honestly I think the nuance would go over a preschooler’s head. I’d also be concerned they’re looking at the pictures when you’re not there and taking that in.

I would perhaps put them on a higher shelf or behind something so not to offend your husband and leave it at that.

I think once your child has an understanding that there are different cultures and we should be respectful you can share them. But until they have those skills I’d tuck them away.

Reading 'classic books' doesn't appear to have done much to help your grasp of the English language. That being said, I broadly agree with you and I am mixed race myself. I would maybe prohibit the ones which have golliwogs etc in them.

so these are the books he read as a child, and yet you choose to marry him despite what negative influence they had upon his character?

Everything is racist now zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Stop virtue signalling

🙄🙄🙄🙄

Hitler burned books he did not like You are doing much the same thing

I agree with you OP. We do have some Rupert books and those ones are fine, but I wouldn't be happy about the racist stereotypes. Most of the examples of useful discussions on this thread are from posters talking about much older children. But for pre-school aged children at the picture book stage, they're not really ready for that kind of nuance and what they're seeing is racist stereotypes being normalised. My DS (aged 5) quite enjoys being read old books, but recently when I got some Mary Poppins stories by PL Travers DP had to do some quite creative spontaneous editing when they travelled round the world and met all kinds of horrific stereotypes (e.g. picaninnies etc.). When DS was 3 I also had to subtly retire a second-hand Large Family book that was all about how Mrs Large decides she is too fat and puts everyone in the family on a diet where they are only allowed to eat lettuce, then they all end up sneaking down to the pantry at night to binge on cake.

I'm being thick here, but where??

meg is a witch, she and the cat and owl go camping and end up with cows in their tent, they send owl to owl school, they go to a haunted castle.

where's the racism?

Why is everyone a woke moron these days and offended by everything! Fucking hell, this world has gone to shit!!

Books stop being published for all sorts of reasons. And old copies quietly binned

Would you read your child a book by Jimmy Saville or Rolf Harris?
Or some of the books mentioned on hete... they are sanitised in modern versions, sometimes for good reason, sometimes for dubious reasons. I saw a Noddy book from the 50s and it was a lot worse than the 80s editions.

This is different from not just liking books.

"old books" is very general.

Did your husband turn out ok?

There is a school of thought which says that too many modern of the moment books will tend to create a narrow perspective.

And tbh quite a lot of modern children's picture books are really really shit.

Rupert visits C**n Island, and the language and illustrations are shockingly outdated and unacceptable. I don’t remember picking up on anything racist as a child, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not jarring and offensive now. Would never read that story to my children.

Any chance you’re white?

I don't know the answer to this either, but I have a child who used to insist that I read him the title of every single sodding book listed in the back cover as 'also available' and I can confirm that there are a lot of Meg & Mog books, including some quite exotic locations.

I knew I’d get a response like this but didn’t think it would go quite so nuclear with a comparison to Hitler!

I didn’t feel comfortable with showing my child an illustrated dictionary with depictions of people that used to be on the marmalade jars.

The difference with Hitler was that he was banning people with critical thinking skills from accessing opposing ideologies. I’m stopping a tiny human with limited critical thinking skills accessing an idea that has historically degraded people.

Oh here we go, another snowflake, give your head a wobble

The audio books of the William series, narrated by Martin Jarvis, were an absolute joy on long car journeys.

When my Dd was 4, she saw a Nun in full habit. Pointed and loudly declared "look, a midwife" as that was the only association she had for nuns. The nun found it funny.

Now imagine it was a person of different ethnicity she had only seen in a book with an outdated racist name. Would it have been funny.

I agree but with caveats. I think that age of the child is key here. If she was 5 or over I would be much happier with talking it through. At the moment I think that there are some things that she just doesn't need to know about quite yet.

I’ll take that as a yes. I too am white, so I am not offended for myself. I am embracing a world where people are not reduced to demeaning and patronising stereotypes.

I think using the term “snowflake” says much more about you than it does about me. I pity you, because of your insecurity and ignorance. But I will not change my views to appease people like you. I hope you learn to do better at some point.

I read a variety - some older, some newer. It's a way to help them understand the viewpoints different generations held and question them, in many cases.

Yep, another modern day idiot. At least I'm not offended by every little word, you pathetic little NPC
Feel sorry for yourself

Mumsnet does tend to skew older and I think that’s affecting the replies you’re getting here. Either people who loved these things as children or who read them to their own children and don’t want to acknowledge that they implicitly condoned the content by doing so. Just because previous generations have been exposed to bigoted crap and “been fine”, doesn’t mean we need to continue doing it.

I would be screening the books and removing the ones that were truly irredeemable. If they’re borderline, I’d compromise with your husband and keep them but discuss with the children why they’re wrong where appropriate.