AIBU to be worried by outdated children’s books being read to our preschooler?

[Dirtymirrors]

Name changed for this. I'm feeling uncomfortable with things but am in a slightly sensitive situation and I don't want to make it harder than it needs to be.

My DH recently lost his mother and only lost his father a few years ago. He has brought a lot of books and other things from the family home to ours which he wants to keep. I am trying not to mind most of it. The problem is the children's books. Which he is now reading to our preschool child. They are very dated and the portrayal of other cultures is stereotypes and insensitive. This ranges from the mildly offensive such as Rupert to some really horrendous caricatures in books from the 50's.

Do I say anything? I want my DD to grow up with a good understanding of different cultures and norms not stereotypes and racism. I don't want to make anything harder on my DH though.

Just to be clear DH is not racist he just thinks that the atmosphere we create will have far more influence than the books. He also does discuss why certain themes and pictures are wrong with DD.

YABU = the books are harmless don't be so worried.

YANBU = I would not be comfortable with this either.

My mum refused to have Enid Blyton books in the house in the 1970s. I don't think it was the isms that bothered her, she just thought they were shit.

I can remember overt racism in the Enid Blyton book 'The Island of Adventure' when describing a black servant called Jo-Jo. I believe that these racist tropes have been removed from modern editions.

I think the biggest barrier to your children being interested in these books though is that they just aren't remotely representative of today's society.

To be fair, a lot of the books that those of us of older generations enjoyed as children had already been written decades previously and weren't especially representative of the society and the times in which we lived.

My Mum worked full-time, I never called my Dad "Sir", and we most certainly didn't have a governess, cook or driver!

I had a black cat when I was little I called him Sambo because of a old book I'd read 🙂 mum refused to call him in at night because she didn't want to yell that into the street

Aww, @Missey85 🐈 She should've called 'Rambo'!

Oh get over it! That’s a brilliant book and story. Those Rupert albums got me massively hooked on books in the 70s. My daughter loved them too. She’s not now some old school racist churning out strange colonial tropes

I have also expanded on my concerns around how people he visits are portrayed and said Rupert is one of the ones I am less worried about.

To be honest I do not find them brilliant writing but that is a different question.

I can only recall Wind in the Willows, Rupert the Bear, the Famous Five with acute pleasure of escapism and adventure which everyone child or adult needs in their life.

I was thinking this too.

Yes you sometimes gasp a bit when you read certain things, but it's easy to filter those out if you are reading out loud.

Funnily enough I saw someone recommending Susannah of the Mounties on here a week or so ago. Now I loved that book as a 9 year old but it's pretty questionable now! But it's a product of its time.

I think the biggest barrier to your children being interested in these books though is that they just aren't remotely representative of today's society

They weren't for my age group either. Did any Gen X people go on caravan holidays without their parents, or get into adventures on Scottish islands with foreign submarines around the corner?

I remember doing a library reading scheme. It was a bit like the summer reading challenge but lasted all year and you gradually got points and eventually got a prize depending on how many points you'd got. There were no points for Enid Blyton books though!

Haven't they edited the Famous Five to make them PC now? Dick is now Rick and Aunt Fanny is now aunt Franny. I might be getting it mixed up with some other classic childrens book though. I used to read them all the time as a kid, I was convinced that our house MUST contain a secret package despite it being a small end terrace.

I think I had that children’s picture atlas. Was it the one with faces of what people from various countries looked like? (I remember my parents sneering at this, saying “you know what German people look like!”).

As for Struwwelpeter, is it racist? In “the story of the inky boys”, who tease a dark-skinned boy, so they get their come uppence by being dipped in black ink. Or is the offensive part the words used to describe the first boy, involving the words “black” and “moor”?

I think I had that children’s picture atlas. Was it the one with faces of what people from various countries looked like? (I remember my parents sneering at this, saying “you know what German people look like!”).

As for Struwwelpeter, is it racist? In “the story of the inky boys”, who tease a dark-skinned boy, so they get their come uppence by being dipped in black ink. Or is the offensive part the words used to describe the first boy, involving the words “black” and “moor”?

I am sure I had a children's animal picture book as a child which had a unicorn along all the other animals so I thought they were real for years.

I remember in one of the Find Outers books Fatty disguised himself as an Indian - blacked up, donned a turban and gave PC Goon his name and address as Mr Hoho-Ha of Bong Castle, India.

I’m not sure, it was full of colour photographs but I can’t remember there were faces of specific races.

Yep this. I think it's good for DC to understand that in other times people had different attitudes and views that we now think are ridiculous. If anything it shows them that positive change has happened and therefore is possible. Also kids absorb a lot of historical detail from reading books which accurately reflect the times in which they were set and having a conversation about them. Handled sensitively it can make them make them more insightful and broad-minded.

Show the kids "Five go mad in Dorset" as an updated deconstruction of the Blyton stories.

As I've mentioned on other threads, I remember the head teacher of my primary school ranting her head off that the reading books we had (probably written in the 1960s) were full of boys out having a good time, while girls were at home helping Mother. She used to make us swap the boys' and girls' names while we read them. I might never have noticed it, otherwise.

Some stereotypical depictions of Chinese people. A seemingly stay at home mum, a Dad who is a walking advert for the tobacco industry and a talking badger!

I agree with you. "Here's a fun story and now we're going to discuss all the things that are wrong with it" is not appropriate at that age.

I would say more like 7, but even then, a story shouldn't need to come with a discussion or lecture.

Those are not on a level, though. Although it's no longer the default, there are plenty of parents who do still choose to stay at home rather than go out to work. Also, anthropomorphic animals who talk is a standard of children's books and cartoons - they still make new Peppa Pig episodes to this day; and much worse than just talking, they even eat sausages at the barbecue!!!

I completely agree with you re the racism and normalising/promoting tobacco use, though.

That's a very interesting perspective, actually. One could argue that she maybe wanted to do it because she had been socialised that way as a girl; but then George would have grown up within the same framework, and not only did she make very different choices from Anne, but although the adults sometimes rolled their eyes at George 'acting like a boy', none of them ever chastised or told her that she was wrong and ordered her to start acting more stereotypically 'feminine'.

I think it's also worth remembering that Anne was younger than the others, so regardless of her sex, she would have naturally been more inclined to model and copy her parents (OK, probably mainly her mum - as dads in the stories were often very hands-off and distant) than her older brothers and cousin.

I firmly agree that, if you actively choose to follow a path that others may see as a stereotype, you have every right to do so, and you aren't 'wrong' for making that choice.

It can be a bit of a fine line, though. Although, as you say, you don't want children to feel lectured and have the weight of the world's inhumanity and historical wrongs put on to their shoulders when they just want a nice story, many young children's stories are clearly designed as their raison d'etre to firmly guide and influence their thinking, attitudes and actions, rather than just entertain them - albeit usually less controversial things such as brushing your teeth, being kind to others, sharing, listening to grown-ups etc.