Bailing because the 'kids don't want to'

[holiphant]

I have a close friend I met through my son's summer school. She has a boy and a girl and I have my 8yo. I'm close to stopping arranging anything with her, because 50% of the time we will arrange a play date (park, either of our houses, beach etc) and she will message 30 mins beforehand with 'I've asked the kids and they don't fancy it today so can we rearrange' or 'sorry the playstation is on and I don't want to drag them away as they are playing nicely together'

It is driving me nuts. I have never considered asking my son if he still wants the play date then cancelling when he says no, on the same day. Sometimes he will moan because he doesn't want to leave the house, but I tell him that's tough because we said we are going, and they always end up having a lovely time. I feel like it is just disrespectful of my time and then I have a bored and upset 8yo at home.

Is it normal and ok to give kids this much autonomy over this kind of thing? AIBU to find this irritating?

Hate this. I have a friend who does it too - I'll tell my kids we're doing x but when we get there hers have declared they 'don't fancy it' and so plans are changed to accommodate what they want to do. Sometimes mine are OK with that if the alternative is fun, but sometimes they're really disappointed.

The one time I absolutely insisted we do what we'd planned, her kids spent the whole time whining and saying how rubbish it was which totally ruined it for everyone and had my kids feeling silly for liking it. Hmph.

I know someone who does this. She is making her children very entitled and teaching them other people's feelings are not important.

No, it's not normal. If arrangements have been made, then the children go, it's that simple. Cancelling due to a legitimate reason, like illness or the cars broken down, I understand.

Your friend is teaching her children, that if they don't fancy doing something, regardless of what arrangements are in place, it's fine to pull out. Life doesn't work that way! We all have to do things we don't always feel like doing!

I don't feel like going to work some days, but I doubt my boss would be very understanding, if I said 'I just don't fancy it today'!!

I wouldn't be arranging playdates with your friend, because she's unreliable and that's making you son sad.

I would step back and treat the plans very loosely. So basically do the same as her. Meet up if nothing better to do, but otherwise bail. Don't change your plans etc for her, and if you change your mind, then don't meet her.
Appreciate easier said than done. And I find this the height of rudeness. Maybe you are meeting too often too - if the playdate was once a week instead of every other day for instance, it might be seen as a bigger deal.

It's all about reciprocity. You can't expect things from others that you're not willing to give yourself.

Surley she'd have worked this out before now?

I have ND kids disgonsed very late - but we learnt to manage them.

Once DS came along I couldn't have coped with this behavior at all - as he struggled with plan changes hugely - someone deciding last minute not to turn up would leave me scrambling and likely having a fucking awful day trying to get him back on track .

We also raised our ND kids with expectation if they said they were doing something they held to that - think that's helped them when fears would have stopped them doing things otherwise.

It’s lazy parenting. I can’t be arsed with people who allow their kids to do as they please, especially around devices! I’d maintain friendship with her if you value it, but I’d stop any plans that involve your child being disappointed due to this

Yanbu to feel irritated when someone repeatedly makes plans and then cancels for not good reason 30 mins before you have arranged to meet .
Its irritating because it show a lack of respect for your time and shows no understanding that you may have turned down other opportunities or moved plans to accommodate the arrangement you made with them.
In the end you either have to accept the person is flaky or say im sorry i cant make arrangements to meet anymore because you are unreliable and it wastes my/our time which we value.

It's rude and disappointing. Stop arranging stuff with her and tell her why. I've recently done something similar. I work full time and in one friend group everyone else either works in schools so are off in the summer or they're on mat leave or part time. So I took annual leave to meet up with them to do an activity/day out with our kids - always something suitable for their kids' ages as mine are older - and twice they all ended up bailing because they decided to go camping or have a longer weekend away and make the most of the weather. And I'm there like "um, this is my one precious day off this week and I'm using my holiday to go to this thing because I wanted to see you all and now you've made it weird". Even when it's a pre booked ticketed thing! I ended up taking my nephews and mum along with me to one thing and went on our own to the other thing but this year I've just said "I'm muting the chat, message me separately about any evening meet ups, I'm not doing day time stuff as I can't trust any of you to actually turn up."

This is a strong possibility. This is a friendship of 2 parts. The child part and the you and her part. I would drop the child part if you want to stay friends and just do adult things.
Sounds like her children are genuinely not interested in playing with your child, maybe because they have each other for company.
She needs to stop making playdates that they obviously don't want.

She’s a crap parent and a rude person. Next time she suggests a meet up I’d say ‘what if your children don’t fancy it though?’ And see what she says. I wouldn’t bother with her myself, and would make an excuse every time she suggests a meet up.

Your friend is a people pleaser, she is organising play dates even though her dc are clearly unenthusiastic. She drops everything for everyone at 3am etc, and then becomes unreliable when she can no longer manage.

Some parents of only children put other families under a great deal of pressure, maybe subtly or not so subtly to organise stuff. When actually the summer is about kicking back, and not being forced to adhere to strict timetables/plans. Freedom essentially.

Good idea.

Drop her. I was friends with a school mum who asked for a play date in the park with DS and her DD during the holidays once. She turned up over an hour late because, as they were leaving to come to the park, her DD announced she wanted to show her doll to another friend. So she took her child to this other house and didn't bother to let me know. This woman was unable to say the word No to her child. When she arrived I told her DS was hungry and wanted lunch (which was true) so we'd be leaving within the next 30mins. She became upset, said her DD had been looking forward to playing with DS all day and then proceeded to say dramatically "SO Sorry DD, [DS]'s mum doesn't want to stay for very long" Lol.

I can't deal with parents like this.

I might get shit for this but I'd probably start to find any child parented like this absolutely insufferable too.

I’ve got a friend that does this: our boys are the same age. Quite often she will cancel at last minute. One time a few of my sons friends cancelled on the same day, and my heart was sad for him waiting for his pals.

the next time we were meeting with them, my son decided he didn’t want to go: he wanted just us to hang out: usually I’d give him the lecture about not letting people down. But he reminded me that they often cancel on us

Not ok, I would sack her off as a friend

But what ages are her children? I mean, is it a playdate because they’re friends with yours and want to play, or a playdate because you’re friends with the mother and want to chat?

My brother-in-law's partner is like this with my nephew. It's always "P doesn't want to ..." or some health problem of hers as an excuse as to not meet up. And I made the mistake of saying about it to my MIL. They didn't understand what I was saying about giving a young child too much power and autonomy and "ruling the roost" as I see it. I had already decided to throw in the towel re. organising meet-ups (it was nearly always me doing so) but I doubt she'll ever speak to me again now anyway, so problem solved 🙄🤔 I must be SUCH a terrible mother to think that the parents get the final say on arrangements. Also, if we've committed to something we'll always stick to it (other than illness or an emergency).

I think it’s okay to do occasionally as long as you give decent notice. There’s the odd occasion where I can tell my kids really really don’t want to do something, so I cancel it. But they also know that cancelling last minute (in this case I mean several hours before, not actually last min) will mean people don’t want to hang out with them if they do it often because it’s being a flake. It’s a bit of a balance between trying to teach them sometimes it’s okay to cancel if you’re not feeling it as long as you’re timely vs teaching them not to be flakey.

I don’t think your friend is being a good friend and she’s not teaching her children to be good friends - which will probably bite them on the arse in adulthood.

It doesn't say how old they are, only mentioning that OPs child is eight. My kids were both older than that when the possibility of neurodiversity was first raised. I hadn't realised because they were doing well academically and it was my normal. I used to make commitments that I didn't manage to follow through on or which created upset for a long time before I learned an approach they could deal with. I also get that it is difficult for ND children to cope with change of plans, and that's why I am wondering if this Mum isn't giving her kids enough notice to get them out the house without a meltdown and when they are settled sometimes just decides it's easier to leave them as they are.

@holiphant
No kid should have that much of a say unless they're in danger
I know she's a 'friend'
But I'd say it with a very tiny 'f' at the beginning.........

I have a friend like this (although not with the children allegedly deciding if they're attending on the day). As I like her a lot and my kids like her kids, I just make plans and let her know I'm going and if she wants to she can turn up, like I'll say I'm going to soft play at this time if your their on the day it would be great to see you if not, no worries. I don't tell the children either so they have no expectations and are just really happy to see their friends if they do turn up. Weirdly I think I see her more now! It stressed me out and now I have no expectations so it's nice if we do but doesn't impact our plans much.

Yeah, it is not what I would call great parenting but 🤷‍♀️
If you still value the friendship/kids enjoy the play dates then I would start not firming things up until the actual day or even an hour before if she is really bad and never tell your children ahead of time. I’ve done something similar with flaky acquaintances over the years and it works quite well. If you really need to plan ahead e.g. ticketed events/further travel then make sure there is at least one non flaky person going too.
e.g. FF: fancy meeting up in the park on Wednesday afternoon?
you: yes, great free at moment on Wed afternoon. Let me know on Wed morning if it still works and we can firm it up then.
Do not tell the kids and do not chase her/say no to anything else/put anything else on hold in the meantime. If she contacts you on Wed morning to firm up and you are still free great - if not then ok too.
Don’t invite her to things you plan (unless group events) with much notice (same day really), and again - don’t tell this kids until it is actually happening.

Is it genuinely the kids or is she just flaking and using them as an excuse?

Next time just reply as breezily as her but deliberalty make it awkward for her: "we're already here" or, "no worries, I'll bring them over, they love the playstation"

She has a thick skin treating you that way.