Bailing because the 'kids don't want to'

[holiphant]

I have a close friend I met through my son's summer school. She has a boy and a girl and I have my 8yo. I'm close to stopping arranging anything with her, because 50% of the time we will arrange a play date (park, either of our houses, beach etc) and she will message 30 mins beforehand with 'I've asked the kids and they don't fancy it today so can we rearrange' or 'sorry the playstation is on and I don't want to drag them away as they are playing nicely together'

It is driving me nuts. I have never considered asking my son if he still wants the play date then cancelling when he says no, on the same day. Sometimes he will moan because he doesn't want to leave the house, but I tell him that's tough because we said we are going, and they always end up having a lovely time. I feel like it is just disrespectful of my time and then I have a bored and upset 8yo at home.

Is it normal and ok to give kids this much autonomy over this kind of thing? AIBU to find this irritating?

I had a friend like this, she would cancel anything and everything because her son didn't want to, she'd say he 'Wouldn't let her' (this was when he was 5 or 6, by the way!). They missed playdates, parties, appointments for both her and her son, things she'd promised to do with other people. The final straw for me was when she'd insisted on taking me to a hospital appointment (I don't drive and it was at a hospital 2 X buses and an hour away), I was fine getting the bus but she wouldn't have it. She rang me 10 mins before she was due to collect me to say her son was insisting on watching a particular episode of a TV programme over and over again, so she wouldn't be able to take me. It was fine, I was able to get a taxi (I couldn't get the bus at this point because I would have got there too late), but I couldn't be friends with her any more, it was just the latest in a long list of things.

Some people bail on plans. You and I do not, Holiphant. I think it is best we hang out with people with a similar planning mentality. Like you, if I had made a plan to meet for a play date, only an actual emergency would have prevented me from going. Lots of other people are like us. Hang out with them. It's easy.

I have always shared plans with DC too. This isn't universal either. I know a few people who don't tell their kids until they are actually going somewhere. I have close family members who operate on this basis. I don't get it. But we are all different.

Time is short and I came to the conclusion I should spend it with people who are easy to arrange things with. This is what I need. Some people are much more spontaneous. I can do that too but I don't want my whole life to be last minute decisions. How I choose to spend the morning will be affected by my afternoon plans.

My dh always used this excuse to get out of doing anything family related. Plain rude imo.

Yes, I raised my eyes at that as well!

She’s rude - you don’t bail out of plans unless there is an emergency.

She obviously decides in the day that she can’t be bothered and blames the kids.

Not normal at all, awful behaviour.

No you're not being unreasonable at all. She is. It's terribly disrespectful to cancel pre-arranged plans because you don't fancy it anymore, even worse to admit to the other person that's the reason for cancelling! She doesn't value the friendship, sadly, so I'd stop making plans with her and find some more reliable friends/playmates for your child.

She's teaching her children a terrible example. If you make plans you see them through, baring extreme extenuating circumstances (illness etc). I/we/they don't feel like it anymore is not acceptable. I doubt she gives her kids that much autonomy if it's something she's pre-booked and paid for up front (farm trip, cinema, theme park etc). Part of me wonders whether she's even asked the kids and whether it's actually her that doesn't fancy it. The playstation excuse definitely suggests that. She couldn't be bothered to leave the house, she didn't want to risk breaking the temporary harmony of them playing nicely together. Even then, she could have still said "the kids are settled here playing on the PlayStation, come on over here instead and join us". Honestly, forget about her. She's not a true friend.

If you like her, only make plans that involve other people so it doesn’t matter if she bales.

Alright, so you are different types of people. You can choose who to spend time with and she can choose how she parents her kids. Neither of you are wrong.

My daughter would rarely say no to a play date, but if there was something she really didn’t want to do, it did nobody any good to drag her there anyway. Similarly, If I’m too shattered to go somewhere, I don’t owe anyone my time. Her kids (are or she is) telling you they don’t want to spend time with you and your kids. She shouldn’t be cancelling last minute, that’s not on, but if she is otherwise reliable, there is something else going on. Maybe stop with the play dates and concentrate on your relationship with her.

Is it better to lie?

Bet the nursery/school staff love this woman! No doubt she expects them just to arrange the timetable round what these kids want. And their employers are going to be really happy as they'll grow up thinking the world revolves around them.
When you commit to something, especially when there's a kid involved, you don't cancel unless an emergency comes up. You shouldn't wait around for a flaky friend who is always late/only comes when it suits her, and don't inflict it on your kid either. I wouldn't make arrangements again with her, and explain you're not having your kid disappointed.

It shows she has no regard or respect for your time at all. If she tries to arrange something again I would have to be honest and say to her that as much as you like her, you don’t want to make plans as she has a bad habit of cancelling last minute and that you find that frustrating and disappointing.
spell it out to her like she’s a child, as she either hasnt considered the impact it has on others, or she is aware but doesn’t care about others

If she requests another date, I'd tell her that you can't commit as she keeps bailing on you (just as you've explained here) and it's not fair on your DS who keeps being disappointed. If you don't tell her why you're dropping this relationship, she'll assume some other reason. This way, she may reconsider the impact of her actions.

My sister is like this with her kids. We went on holiday with them and every decision each day was whatever the kids wanted, including where to eat on a night! Me and my husband went off and did our own thing most of the time. Never again!

When the kids are paying for the meal they can choose the restaurant. 😂

I fshe makes an effort with you personally but always bales when it's a meet up with the children then perhaps the children don't get along as well as you think?

Stop arranging things and leave the ball in her court. If she contacts you and suggests you get together sans kids then that will be the answer. If she doesn't get in touch at all then just drop it quietly and disappear. She's not going to prioritise you so don't keep putting yourself out for her, only to be knocked back.

"That's really disappointing, my DC have been looking forward to it and it's very late notice to let them down. This has happened a few times so it's probably best we don't rearrange until you're confident you won't change your mind last minute, I'm not willing to risk them being disappointed again".

Basically, make it clear that her children's feelings don't trump yours, even if it's a bit awkward.

She's a dickhead and raising future dickhead adults so I would be happy to let the kids' friendship dwindle.

No the friend is definitely in the wrong. Saying no to plans is fine, repeatedly cancelling last minute because you don't fancy it anymore is rude and selfish.

It's really bad parenting, but also quite common, at that moment in time it's easier to leave them on the PlayStation than get them to go out.

Are there any obvious mutual friends, so if you were meeting her and also another mum and child, it could still go ahead and be fun, even if they flake out?

I think an honest, but polite, reply to her next suggestion is the right approach. If she says "beach on Friday?" you can say "can we invite X along as well, then if your two don't feel like it last minute DS and I can still go, takes the pressure off," or "can you check with your kids now if they want to go, it's not really working for us to find out last minute that they don't," or "can you check it with your kids first and let me know."

This is a rude behaviour from her and she's relying on politeness not to point this out and a lack of consequences. I think it's okay to recognise it tactfully. Even if all that changes is that she has to say to her kids "are you happy to go to the beach on Friday," and then get back to you, it's a little more leg work drawing attention to the fact her behaviour is unusual.

Similarly, If I’m too shattered to go somewhere, I don’t owe anyone my time.

If you've made an arrangement with someone, you absolutely do owe them that time, outside illness and emergencies.

I wouldn't bother with her again. I truly hate people like this, who waste other people's time constantly. Life is too short for this bullshit, and these kind of bullshit people.

Morally, no. It could spare feelings though. Telling someone you or your kids don't fancy it any more is basically saying "sorry, I don't really want to hang out with you". She could have definitely come up with an excuse to spare feelings. It's not morally right, but in the circumstances I think it's preferable yes.

When you stop arranging things with her, do it in a straightforward way and let her know why. Maybe that will encourage her to change her ways (I may be grasping a straws though). Her behaviour is very selfish, and she's abdicating adult responsibility to her children.

Completely agree! I would say that you do owe them your time because they’ve committed their time to you. There’s a natural reciprocity there.

This, you say, is a close friend?

She doesn't want to see you.