To not want to help out my great aunt

[SooPanda]

AIBU to not want to help out my great aunt.

My great aunt (GA) has no children and her husband sadly died last year. In their 80s. Live about an hour away from me, it’s not an easy drive either.

Before her husband died they rarely saw us. We send cards at holidays but I probably haven’t seen her in 8+ years and she speaks to my DM on the phone maybe once every few months but never took up offers for visits.

Recently has been speaking to my DM saying that she needs help round the house with housework, meals, laundry etc and basically moaning that DM won’t help her - DM has bad knees and bad breathing and no longer drives long distances (it’s further from hers than mine) so DM has now told me (yes told, not asked) that I should be going round to my GA’s house every other day to help her out.
I wfh part time and have children in secondary and primary schools and frankly, even if I could carve out the time to do this, I’m not sure I really want to?!
AIBU to say no?!

Many of the responses on this thread are talking about a situation that doesn't exist for the OP. Of course in some families there is a culture of all helping each other out - I'm in a family like that, have benefitted from lots of help with my kids etc and fully expect to help out with older relatives in the future. But the OPs GA has not chosen to be in that type of close family set up and so she really can't expect to turn around at this point and reap the benefits of that type of support

Yes, because they have their own lives to live. The elderly relatives have lived their lives and shouldn't destroy other people's lives. Caring for someone is an awful task and most people don't want to do it.

If you do then great, but don't expect other people to.

Even if you wanted to it's not feasible to visit every other day. It would take, more or less, all day.

You've a job, children, home life etc.

To visit one a fortnight, once a month, emergencies - possibly. (So long as there's no crying wolf.)

I don't think your problem is your aunt but your Mum. Did she have a full on life with children, work etc? Has she forgotten?

Before my mum went into care I spent 2/3 days/week living with her. My brother, who lives very locally, did the rest. I did this for 18 months/2 years.

It was hard work and I'm retired, children have flown the nest and some weeks I took my DW with me.

All the best.

You've gone from not wanting to do this to taking on a sort of overseer/managerial role! Your mother has worked her magic. Mum and Auntie will become increasingly reliant on you - it will become your 'job' to fill in the gaps. Within months you will be run ragged and wish you had said 'no' straightaway. It will be much harder to back away once you start because "Auntie depends in you". Good luck.

@SooPanda I've been 24/7 carer for my bedbound husband for years and do it willingly. In in your situation I'd be saying get a cleaner and telling DM to take a hike. Totally unrealistic and ridiculous expectation.

I think your GA and DM are of the generation where if you needed help in old age, some poor member of the extended family would step in. Times have changed and this isn't the norm any more, and your GA and DM need to get up to date. There are many agencies, companies, and charities that provide daily or weekly help of the kind you mention. The GA will have to pay, of course, but if she is really hard up and her needs are serious enough, the state may help out with various benefits. I know this is a cultural leap for some folks of the older generation or even younger folks who haven't faced these situations before – we had to do our research and come up with sources of help for our elderly mother – but it's a leap that must be made. The most you should do is help your GA and DM with their research. We found a company called Helping Hands, who were great. Also, for those elderly people who want to get out and about, Driving Miss Daisy is worth looking into.

@SooPanda has a young family and doesn't have time to do this every other day - its a massive ask for someone she doesn't have a relationship with. She shouldn't be be guilt tripped on this.. women get that sort of nonsense all the time.

We used to have friends in Mumbai (Indian) one of whose elderly parents with dementia was cared for in her own home, many miles from Mumbai, by two live in carers. As friends pointed out, such arrangements are a great deal cheaper and easier to organise there than in the U.K. The woman also told me that such arrangements are not at all unusual for those who can afford it - and you didn’t need to be particularly well off.

Of course there will be those who cannot.

On that topic, a dd worked for a while in rural Cambodia, where she witnessed a grandmother with dementia being tied to a chair outside all day, to stop her a) from wandering off and getting lost, and b) weeing and pooing in the house.

She was hosed down once a day.
For such people - the rural very poor - there was no alternative.

I do feel sorry for the GA. Being old and alone can be miserable. I also totally appreciate your standpoint.
Being a regular cleaner, carer, cook etc would be a non-starter for me. But in your position I would feel that maybe a monthly visit, purely social, would be reasonable.
Your mother should not be asking you to do more, or anything at all really. It’s not her call.

I’m also from a culture where people are expected to help each other.

But that is often at the expense of women’s time and efforts.

The newer generations are able to have a balance between helping where necessary and pointing relatives to cleaners/gardeners/carers.

There was a thread the other day about obsolete phrases, and I nearly contributed Chinny Reckon - prob not heard it for forty years! Usually followed up with Jimmy Hill and a chin scratch 🤔

Have you, personally (not your 'extended family'), been involved in care of an elderly relative over a protracted period of time, to the possible detriment of your work and immediate family? Just curious.

Yes, @TheHateUGive, @SooPanda should set herself on fire to keep her great aunt warm. 🤨

Ffs - she works, is raising kids and has her own house to manage - how is she supposed to find the time or energy to drive an hour to her great aunt’s house, do her cleaning - another couple of hours - then drive home? 4+ hours extra work, every other day, from an already full schedule!

As well as signposting to the local council we have found Age Uk (in our area at least) can provide paid support in quite a lot of ways. Worth considering.

So you would do 2 hours travel plus however long you stay there every other day , i assume until she dies ?

Some cultures believe in inbreeding as well, doesn't make it right. We are all different, thankfully.

Yes, this is what such care actually looks like.

It's always either an uneven expectation on women who don't have a choice and are often resentful, or families with resources have some kind of shitwork class to exploit. Sometimes it's a domestic shitwork class easily available to exploit, like in India, other times it's an imported one. It's never equitable.

WHY IS IT ALWAYS WOMEN WHO ARE ASKED WHEN IT COMES TO CARE DUTIES?!!!!

Argh! I am sick of it. 😠

YANBU @SooPanda

Could you step up in the short term, to help her sort out cleaners, internet shopping, carers etc as necessary? Old people do struggle with this sort of thing, and can feel overwhelmed by it. You could take your mum along with you too, to advise and so on. And then maybe stay in closer touch; a phone call from time to time, a visit here and there? Just a thought.

Nothing is left all to me and I help others with their load.

@TheHateUGive Isn't that the salient point, though, that in your family, people receive and give help throughout their lives? The OP hasn't been raised in that type of family, she hardly knows her great-aunt and has never received nor expected help from her.

Now suddenly asking @SooPanda to drive two-hours round trip every other day to do cleaning/laundry is abit rich, isn't it. Especially when hiring help is relatively easy and far more efficient as presumably they'd live locally.

Say: I can't. I work and have school age children and my own home to run. There aren't the hours in the day. She needs proper support.

So, if you said yes you would be doing a 2 hour round trip, plus whatever chores need doing every other day!?!

Could you manage this? It sounds like an awful lot to cope with alongside young children & a p/t job.

YA definitely NBU to refuse to do what you can't do.

I guess the question is whether you could offer something. How would you feel about this? Would it be any use to your GA?

You mention that you didn't see much of her previously. Do you like her?

If you do, then perhaps you could offer something. One day a month maybe, to do some batch cooking, which she supplements with ready meals & also gets a cleaner?

But if you don't like her, or you don't have any spare capacity I would refuse as if you agree you'll just need up feeling resentful.

This is not on OP or even her mother to manage.

Just because her great aunt is having a moan about how she would LIKE someone to help her around the house doesn't mean she has no capacity to arrange this help herself - or to make her own decisions about her own life.

It's up to her - she can employ carers in her own home if she can afford it and if she can't she can arrange to sell the house and spend the proceeds on a lovely care environment to enjoy the rest of her days.

I absolute disagree with theHateUgive - we are responsible for ourselves as much as possible, and should limit the amount we ask others to do, especially when it's a matter of wanting rather than ability.

Either the house is too big for her to manage, which is incredibly common and easily solved, or she is just having a moan because she feels lonely, which is understandable and also easily solved by selling the house.

It is beneficial for older people to keep managing their own needs - even if it takes a long time to do so, it keeps them moving and functioning. If they are incapable of this then they need to move to a different environment - and they should pay for that, not others.

It is such a waste of time when most of it will be spent driving.

Also, I’m wondering where is this Utopia where there are enough hours in the day for an enormous network of familial care that the state provision is not needed. I’m sure it is amazing, especially for women. Or maybe it is truly completely shared, with men in the extended family popping casseroles in the freezer en masse (and giving it a deep clean) whilst new mum is two days post natal. Very credible indeed is this proclamation of such a utopian culture.

It is a ridiculous proposal. GA needs to access whatever state services to which she is entitled. Otherwise, get someone in once or twice a week and pay them. Shopping can be delivered. However if GA is still having an active life, she could make a day of a shop, coffee etc.

I think if the issue was a visit or two in the month for company, or GA coming to her niece’s, or great niece’s for a nice regular visit, that is a bit different. But I think GA has had no interest in them for years, and indeed seems to have none now, except for expecting her niece to come clean her house. The niece now wants to subcontract this thankless task to her daughter (working and has children) who will waste most of her time on the road. Actually, even thinking of the petrol/electricity costs (along with time wasting) that would be more efficiently used on a local cleaner.

I think the possibility of a will might be on the mum’s mind. However, that could end up with the Cat and Dogs home in any event. Doesn’t sound like GA has much interest in the family outside of getting them to spend hours on the road to come do her housekeeping. It is very unreasonable, inefficient, and inconsiderate.

I think that your mother is cheeky expecting you to give up several hours at least 3 days a week to help out your great aunt. Your married with kids and a job.
Meanwhile you have not seen your great aunt in years and hardly know her.

You need to tell your mother that you don't have the time to do this and your mother needs to look into the services that your aunt could be entitled to. She may be able to get attendance allowance that could pay for a cleaner, gardener ect.
I would be aware that if you start to look up things, do paperwork ect that in time you will be expected to do more of this.

If you want to call to your great aunt and get certain things in place that is your decision. I would not be calling several times a week and letting her think that your always available to do things or drive her places if required.
As people get older they have to think about how they will manage and get plans in place for this stage.

One of my friends has seen the difference that planning made for several elderly people she knows.