To be bothered about this interaction with manager?

[SorcererGaheris]

I volunteer in a charity shop (it's a bookshop) and our manager is a very nice person who I get along with.

I have noticed that when she is feeling very stressed, she can sometimes speak in quite a snappish way. (Understandable, I know.) I should perhaps add that she is under a lot of pressure generally from higher management, who moan at her any time the shop is closed for a day (due to not enough volunteers being able to come in or volunteers refusing to come in on that day because there is so much uncollected stock in the basement - the waste collection company is supposed to come every week, but often goes four or five weeks without showing up.)

For about three weeks, the shop's toilet has had a leak, which has also entailed the manager having to come in early on a Sunday morning (her one full day off) and mop up the accumulated water, and put down cardboard and newspaper to try to soak up some of the water during the day.

Last week, someone finally came in to begin work on fixing the leak - we had needed to wait until someone higher in the charity gave the go-ahead for this to happen, which was why it didn't get sorted out sooner.

Throughout this whole period, we have all continued to use the toilet, as it still worked perfectly well. When I arrived for one of my shifts last week, the first thing I did was use the toilet (having had a coffee before making my way into the shop, I need to go as soon as I get in.) I noticed that work had begun on fixing the toilet, and could not see any sign of the panel on which is affixed the buttons to flush the toilet. All I could see was some pipes and metal, etc.

Not wanting to start rooting around in case I disturbed or messed up something, I used the toilet, but didn't flush, as I couldn't see the mechanism by which to do this.

I had literally just stepped out of the toilet when the manager came into the back. I thought I should explain to her the reason why I hadn't flushed. I started to explain, but no sooner had I got a few words out about using the toilet than the manager cut across me and snapped, "You can do what you like, I just want to wash my hands!"

I was startled at what seemed to me a needlessly aggressive reaction to an innocent statement. I repeated again that I had already used the toilet and due to the work having been started on it, could not figure out how to flush. She said, still in a snappy tone, "You press the button." I explained that the button wasn't visible and would she be able to show me what to do.

She went into the toilet and pulled out the panel from amongst the pipes (the panel had been put in there facing in the opposite direction, so I didn't realise that it had the buttons on the other side.)

I didn't know, at that moment, that shortly before I had arrived, the till had stopped working properly (so they could only take cash transactions) so that must have been another stress factor for her.

I do understand the effects of stress and how it impacts our behaviour. Hell, I'm not immune to it myself. So a part of me is understanding - but at the same time, it wasn't pleasant to be spoken to in such a sharp, snappy way over innocent statements. I would think that part of being a manager is to not take out your stress on your volunteers.

So, on one hand, I understand why she spoke like that, but I still feel a bit bothered by it, because it's not a nice way to be spoken to.

@IPoopRainblows

In that case, I failed to pick up on the social cue, which is a failing on my part.

I wonder how you come across day to day? I manage someone who tells me the most insignificant things on an almost daily basis. I can be having a really stressful day and they’ll say ‘What are you doing about that?’ I have to be really patient but it’s hard.

This.
She shouldn’t have snapped. But it might be worth pausing and thinking, ‘Do I get to the point, or do I tend to give quite a lot of background and am I driving people slightly mad, particularly when they have a million things on their mind??’

Are you perfect OP? Because almost everyone is know has snapped at some point. You know that your nanager is under pressure, is usually nice so let this one go. If you really can't then as others have pointed out, your work is voluntary so you can leave.

I do think your overthinking it. If she does it again. Just tell her you don't appreciate being spoken to like that. Is she also a volunteer. If I was her. Id tell them to shove it!

I hate to think what some of you lot must have been like in the school playground.

Feeling very irritated and stressed. Should I snap at someone random- a subordinate perhaps- in order to palm off my feelings?

Righto, well you tell local authorities that, and government and get the language changed. In the meantime I will carry on using the appropriate language of my choice. Using different language from you is not the same as being ignorant. I certainly do not insult people with special needs, special educational needs or SEN as it is known. I am fully aware of all the arguments in disability communities and autistic communities around language. What was considered offensive 20 years ago (autistic person) is now the preferred term with the autism community. However I don't believe in policing other people's language because it is oppressive. The fact that you thought I should be reported and deleted for saying 'no' tells me a lot about your approach to consent and autonomy. Anyway the clear and obvious reason why I used the term special needs in my post was that this was the term op used. And op found my comment about seeking accommodations to be helpful so maybe you should mind your own business and stop policing what other people say.

I think many posters have been extremely hard on you.

Of course a manager shouldn't be regularly snapping at staff because she is stressed. I imagine if you said you were working there for minimum wage, instead of for free, you would have received more balanced replies.

I suspect there's quite a bit of anti autism feeling at play too which is depressing.

Your manager absolutely shouldn't have snapped at you. It sounds like a situation where she was stressed about a number of things going wrong and her needing to find solutions. To her you were overly worried about breaking the toilet and didn't just get straight to the point and say 'please can you show me where the toilet flush is'?

To you, the till breaking and being asked about a toilet flush wasn't something to get stressed about. To her the toilet being unflushed wasn't the big deal you thought it may have been. It is surprisingly stressful when lots of things go wrong in close succession and you're the person who's expected to have all the answers. Ideally, she would have recognised in the moment that she'd been abrupt and apologised. Everyone will have done something like this at some point in their life as we're not robots and noone is perfect.

Not everyone has said she's unreasonable. I wouldn't appreciate it.
Some places wonder why they can't retain people, and often it's not even big events. It's a pattern of feeling undervalued or disrespected.
Snippy impatient managers can do one, and if they are managing volunteers, then they need to understand that these people are doing this because they want to and they care, not because they are being paid for it, so be extra appreciative if anything!

Well you'd be a shit manager then

@tripleginandtonic

I'm not perfect - I have my fair share of faults. Some people seem to think I've displayed some of those in this thread, although personally I don't agree with that.

I am going to let it go. I've made it clear that I'm not going to raise this subject with her. I'm going to let it slide when it comes to my one-on-one interactions with her.

I simply want to bitch about it here because it's cathartic. I've tended to get the impression that the British public enjoy having a good moan, so as one of the British public, I consider that with this thread, I'm more or less exhibiting a national characteristic.

You mentioned you are autistic OP, which means there's a few on here that will try and make you feel even more confused and rubbish about your apparent lack of understanding of how much of a snowflake oversensitive nuisance you're being to everyone around you.

@sparrowhawkhere

Well, as it pertains to the shop, I'm only there two days a week, and one of them is Sunday which is the manager's day off. So the only time I see her is the Thursday morning (that's one of her half days, so she leaves at one pm.)

The manager is one who quite likes to have light-hearted conversation with the volunteers. Neither she or the deputy manager are exactly hard task-masters, which is really nice, but it does mean that some of the volunteer staff don't actually do a whole lot of work while they are there.

So when I see her on Thursday mornings, we usually have some brief chat upstairs (the manager is usually on the till all morning) before I go into the basement to start work. We might speak a bit offhandedly after that, but not a great deal, because I'm getting on with tasks that need doing. So I'd say that our level of spoken interaction is reasonable minimal for the reason that I'm too engaged in doing the jobs to spend a lot of time talking.

@Branleuse

Thanks for being understanding! I don't know if it's to do with the autism (though that's a possibility) but I don't want to presume some kind of anti-autism prejudice.

I do think that some people are making incorrect assumptions about me and my intentions/general behaviour, and while some of that may stem from the way I've worded things, I also think there's a case of people jumping to conclusions and not taking on board everything I've stated.

For example, I made it clear earlier in the thread that there was no way I was going to go so far as to make a complaint, because it's far too minor an incident and as a nice, good person, the manager doesn't deserve that. Yet a recent poster more or less accused me of intending to complain to HR about her!

Other people are assuming that I frequently speak in a long-winded fashion. I can understand that more, because my written word is long-winded, but I've clarified that this isn't the way I normally speak.

So I do think there is a case of some people reading into this what they want, rather than paying attention to what I specifically say.

And despite how it might come across, I understand that people can get irritable and snappy when under stress. That's why I made the point of highlighting all that in the first post, to give the context and to show that the manager wasn't trying to be unpleasant. It happens. I know. People are flawed. I'm sure I've done it myself a number of times.

In isolated incidents, it's not a big deal. I'm just making the point that it's unfair. It's unfair if I do it, it's unfair if other people do it.

And hey, what kind of British citizen would I be if I didn't have a moan? Like I said earlier, it seems more or less a national characteristic.

@InMyOodie

I can understand where some of the other posters are coming from. Perhaps I haven't come across as sympathetic enough to the manager's general circumstances as I could have done - although I thought I had done that in my first few posts - so perhaps there is a failing on my part for not wording my general sympathy for the manager's overall situation in a more explicit way.

But I do think that some people are also reading into this what they want rather than going by things I've specifically stated.

I imagine if you said you were working there for minimum wage, instead of for free

That's interesting - and you may be right - but if so, I wonder why that would be the case? I would have thought that people would be equally sympathetic with an unpaid volunteer, because volunteers aren't getting compensated for their time or labour at all. (Out of choice, I know.)

@SorcererGaheris
Im autistic too. I see it on here plenty.

I think what is happening on this thread is a reflection of what happened in the moment and also an illustration of an issue that a lot of autistic people find difficult. You tried to give information that you thought was important and then kept explaining yourself further. Your manager was signalling that she was not in the right frame of mind to engage, but you were so focused on your concerns you missed the signal (not unusual in autistic people). You are right that it is unfair behaviour and should not happen at work but are over focused on her reaction to you and issues of fairness so trying to keep giving more information to put forward your view point. Sometimes things are not fair. Most people just get on with things, unless it is a persistent pattern over time, and there are no redeeming qualities in the other person.

I am glad you are finding it helpful to vent here, which is a big benefit for these kind of forums. Out of curiosity what are you taking from the helpful comments about what to do differently going forward?

@MrsChristmasHasResigned

Well, I'm hoping such a situation will not be repeated, but should it:

I suppose I'm thinking on the one hand that if I have information to give her, then I should just keep my my mouth shut, not share it and let her find out about it on her own.

I'm willing to overlook her speaking sharply with me due to stress a few times, but if it ever became a really regular thing, I think I'd have to find some way of making it clear that it's an upsetting experience for me. I don't know if I'd have the courage to say that in the moment, but if not, I could perhaps get the Sunday Shift Leader to have a word on my behalf.

I think getting someone to help you if it persists and you need to express how upsetting it is would be a good idea. I was struck by this though -

Well, I'm hoping such a situation will not be repeated,

It will be. You have mentioned you have seen her do it before, have been very understanding about the stress she is under but seem to expect perfect behaviour going forward. People are not perfect, and even very nice people have off days and off times.

I suppose I'm thinking on the one hand that if I have information to give her, then I should just keep my my mouth shut, not share it and let her find out about it on her own.

This is very black and white thinking. You could look at what you did that contributed to this situation by missing the signal she gave you. Instead of not sharing any information at all, it would be better to think about what the signal that someone wants you to stop talking looked like and look for this in future. Maybe even as a rule - if someone uses this tone or words, I dont say anything else at that time.

It will be. You have mentioned you have seen her do it before, have been very understanding about the stress she is under but seem to expect perfect behaviour going forward. People are not perfect, and even very nice people have off days and off times.

I don't expect it, I just hope for it, I think. Obviously I know it very well could happen again, but everyone has unrealistic hopes.

You could look at what you did that contributed to this situation by missing the signal she gave you. Instead of not sharing any information at all, it would be better to think about what the signal that someone wants you to stop talking looked like and look for this in future.

All right, that's a helpful suggestion. So assuming such a signal would be speaking in a harsh or sharp tone - then the sensible thing would be to walk away from her? Take steps to remove myself from the situation?

All right, that's a helpful suggestion. So assuming such a signal would be speaking in a harsh or sharp tone - then the sensible thing would be to walk away from her? Take steps to remove myself from the situation?

Yes. That puts you in control which is helpful.