To be bothered about this interaction with manager?

[SorcererGaheris]

I volunteer in a charity shop (it's a bookshop) and our manager is a very nice person who I get along with.

I have noticed that when she is feeling very stressed, she can sometimes speak in quite a snappish way. (Understandable, I know.) I should perhaps add that she is under a lot of pressure generally from higher management, who moan at her any time the shop is closed for a day (due to not enough volunteers being able to come in or volunteers refusing to come in on that day because there is so much uncollected stock in the basement - the waste collection company is supposed to come every week, but often goes four or five weeks without showing up.)

For about three weeks, the shop's toilet has had a leak, which has also entailed the manager having to come in early on a Sunday morning (her one full day off) and mop up the accumulated water, and put down cardboard and newspaper to try to soak up some of the water during the day.

Last week, someone finally came in to begin work on fixing the leak - we had needed to wait until someone higher in the charity gave the go-ahead for this to happen, which was why it didn't get sorted out sooner.

Throughout this whole period, we have all continued to use the toilet, as it still worked perfectly well. When I arrived for one of my shifts last week, the first thing I did was use the toilet (having had a coffee before making my way into the shop, I need to go as soon as I get in.) I noticed that work had begun on fixing the toilet, and could not see any sign of the panel on which is affixed the buttons to flush the toilet. All I could see was some pipes and metal, etc.

Not wanting to start rooting around in case I disturbed or messed up something, I used the toilet, but didn't flush, as I couldn't see the mechanism by which to do this.

I had literally just stepped out of the toilet when the manager came into the back. I thought I should explain to her the reason why I hadn't flushed. I started to explain, but no sooner had I got a few words out about using the toilet than the manager cut across me and snapped, "You can do what you like, I just want to wash my hands!"

I was startled at what seemed to me a needlessly aggressive reaction to an innocent statement. I repeated again that I had already used the toilet and due to the work having been started on it, could not figure out how to flush. She said, still in a snappy tone, "You press the button." I explained that the button wasn't visible and would she be able to show me what to do.

She went into the toilet and pulled out the panel from amongst the pipes (the panel had been put in there facing in the opposite direction, so I didn't realise that it had the buttons on the other side.)

I didn't know, at that moment, that shortly before I had arrived, the till had stopped working properly (so they could only take cash transactions) so that must have been another stress factor for her.

I do understand the effects of stress and how it impacts our behaviour. Hell, I'm not immune to it myself. So a part of me is understanding - but at the same time, it wasn't pleasant to be spoken to in such a sharp, snappy way over innocent statements. I would think that part of being a manager is to not take out your stress on your volunteers.

So, on one hand, I understand why she spoke like that, but I still feel a bit bothered by it, because it's not a nice way to be spoken to.

I think you’re being far too sensitive. Yeah maybe she was a bit huffy, but sometimes, just sometimes you want adults to adult and not come to you with every last thing. It’s a bit like dealing with kids…

Kid: Mum! Flush doesn’t work
Mum: Don’t care, just leave it
Kid:But Mum! The flush!
Mum: leave it
Kid: The buttons have gone!
Mum: For the love of fucking god, I’ll flush the toilet for you, hang on, see it’s there!

I think you got away lightly, she sounds super stressed and just when she’s up to her eyes with a broken till, you’ve got grown adults telling her they haven’t flushed the toilet.

@Moveoverdarlin

But surely it was better to explain why I hadn't been able to flush the toilet than to leave it unclean for the next person who used it?

Telling the manager about it enabled the toilet to get clean, because she knew where the flushing mechanism had been moved to.

I think your manager is being unreasonable, but also seems to be having a hard time. Perhaps show compassion xxx

I wouldn't appreciate that either. I don't think you are over sensitive to notice your manager being rude to you whenever she's under stress. You're giving up your time for free here.

Nah! Just leave it, if someone moans about the wee say ‘Sorry my bad, I couldn’t work the flush with the toilet being broken and Sue was up to her eyes in it this morning so didn’t want to keep bothering her. Sorry! Hey good job it was only wee! Ha Ha!’

Just chill.

@Moveoverdarlin

Well, should such circumstances ever arise again, maybe that's what I'll do.

It just seemed better to get it flushed away somehow at the time.

Your feelings are valid, her tone upset you. Her feelings are also valid though- tales of your incompetence at not being able to flush a toilet annoyed her. Going over it in your head endlessly won’t help though and I expect your memory of it is probably exaggerated and it wasn’t as bad as you think. Hope it won’t spoil things going forward for you - don’t let it x

@Biscuit12

Is it fair to call it incompetence, though? I knew how to flush the toilet, but the mechanism had been moved to and wasn't visible to me. I had no idea where it was, so felt the need to ask. I just don't think that's incompetence, just an unfortunate thing that happens when someone comes and moves things around.

People might say I should have spent more time searching for it myself, but I've already said I was reluctant to do this because I was worried I'd inadvertently mess something up or break something. I've quite a bit of experience with my own clumsiness.

I've left paid employment after being spoken to like I'm a dickhead, so you have my sympathies OP.

OP: AIBU?
MN: Yes you are
OP: Well I don’t agree

Why bother asking?

@Tillow4ever

I've admitted that I've been probably been unreasonable in letting the incident get to me so much.

I just don't think I'm unreasonable to think the incident was unfair.

Besides, just because someone asks for other people's perspectives, it does not mean that we are obliged to agree with them. Sometimes it's just interesting to see what people say.

@SorcererGaheris Well, from my perspective, the manager is the one in charge of the shop. And it wasn't an issue of working out how to flush the toilet in itself - it was locating where the flushing mechanism had been placed. It didn't take any knowledge of plumbing. The flushing mechanism had just been put in a non-visible place and I couldn't find it, so I asked the manager if she could show me where it was

But again, that makes little sense. What qualification does she have, that you do not, that allows her to locate the flushing mechanism any better than you? It would be that she would have just had to fish around and have a look for it. You have the same ability. Being a manager does not give her extra skills in locating flushing mechanisms. The only requirement would be a pair of eyes, which you both have. I’ve managed staff and departments for many years. I’d be so perplexed by a staff member like this. Sure, I would have skills and experience I would be working to transfer to my staff, but locating flushing mechanisms would not be one of these.

Mountain. Molehill. What are you expecting to happen? Do you just want everyone to agree with you?
Have you ever been a manager?

What sort of a maniac fixes a toilet and leaves the flush mechanism invisible.
In such a situation you might well ask in case it wasn't fixed or there was something wrong with the flush. The poster says she's worried about being clumsy but that's quite a reasonable worry if the flush has been left out of sight. You'd assume- considerably- that it was for a reason and ask someone. You'd also assume the manager would have been told by the plumber who hid the flush in the first place, why they did that.

I have and I'd avoid snapping at anyone particularly in a toilet where they might feel vulnerable.
I've never been a plumber so I've no idea why you might hide a flush or even where.

If you don’t mind me asking op, how old are you? You are coming across as either very young, very elderly or possibly vulnerable - and maybe if we knew that the responses would have been kinder. Do you have any/much experience in the world of work outside of this volunteering job? I ask that because you commented about how the stress being put on by the head office to the manager is then being put onto you all and you think that’s unfair. But there is an old saying - shit rolls downhill - and that’s true across all of work environments. If a manager is getting it in the neck, their direct reports are going to feel that pain too.

You said about people not turning up etc - have you ever been one to not turn up or say you won’t come in at the last minute? Are you someone that needs a lot of “hand holding” (I.e. lots of support day to day in terms of the basic job)? If any of these are a yes, then the managers attitude is even more understandable. Do you tend to say 20 words when 3 will do in a situation (no judgement, I do that)? If so, it might be that your boss thought you were going to spend ages saying whatever it was and they just needed to get in there and wash their hands quickly!

Can you honestly say you’ve gone through life and never snapped at someone, or been a bit short with them? I know I can’t, and don’t know anyone who could say that. Is it ideal? No. But it’s human and it’s understandable when someone is under pressure.

You could try, when things are calmer, saying to her “I noticed you were a little snappy earlier, is everything ok? Anything I can help with?” That way you’re telling her she was snapping at you in case she didn’t realise, but doing it kindly under the guise of caring and offering support. Most managers need at least one person in their team that they can lean on for this sort of support - maybe feel flattered that she feels safe to show you she’s stressed!

I have a friend that used to volunteer in a charity shop. She was asked if she would like the manager job as she was pretty much doing it anyway. She declined and said absolutely no way with the bunch of volunteers she had working there. Some of the incompetence she described was ridiculous from grown adults (no LD or ND). There was evidence of theft by some as well. She had the situation too where some wouldn’t turn up if they didn’t feel like it that day, because they were volunteering they felt that entitled them to do that and the shop should be grateful. But you can’t run a business that way - and it all falls to the manager to handle which just adds to the stress. You’re bound to snap at the group of people causing that stress at some point.

Yes I am aware that volunteers sometimes have special needs but it wasn't clear from your op that you have special needs. However from subsequent posts I can see that you have mentioned autism. Is your manager aware that you have special needs? If not, perhaps you need to have a conversation with her and let her know what your needs are. You and she will not necessarily have the same way of approaching things. If she understands you better then she might be more accommodating/sympathetic.

You see that's where I disagree. You hadn't necessarily done something wrong but you had done something very irritating - being passive and needy and wanting your manager to show you where the flush is. Until you can recognise the impact of your behaviour on others you will go around believing that she was 'unfair'. It's not unfair it's life. You did something to annoy her (and most people would find your behaviour annoying) but you won't just own that and move on. It's like you are trying to prove you are blameless and she is unfair. No. Reflect on your own behaviour and its impact on others. This will improve your relationships immeasurably. You can't change others but you can change yourself.

This

@HoppingPavlova

What qualification does she have, that you do not, that allows her to locate the flushing mechanism any better than you?

It wasn't a question of qualifications. Our manager knew where the flushing mechanism had been placed because she'd been informed by whoever came in to work on the toilet.

She didn't need any skills or experience for that - it was information that had been passed onto her. So all she had to do was share that information or do what she ended up doing - which was going straight to the flushing mechanism and fishing it out, because she knew where it was.

@Tillow4ever

I'm 37. I don't know whether I'd be considered 'vulnerable' or not - a previous manager did once describe me as such - but I don't think I'd legally be recognised as a vulnerable adult, although some people might subjectively think of me as having vulnerabilities.

If a manager is getting it in the neck, their direct reports are going to feel that pain too.

I understand in a logical sense, in that yes, it obviously happens. All I'm saying is that it doesn't change the fact that it's essentially unfair. It's like a chain of unfairness that starts from above.

You said about people not turning up etc

That was a reference to staff who volunteer on a particular day and they choose not to go in because they feel the basement environment is unsafe. (The reason they feel it's unsafe is because of the waste management company going for weeks without showing up (when they're contracted to come every week) which leads to a pile-up of 50-60 crates of culled/unsellable stock, in addition to all the other stock we have in the basement.

I think it's legitimate for staff to choose not to come in when they feel that the environment is unsafe.

For myself - there are times when I choose to take time off, but I almost always make sure that I give the manager appropriate notice beforehand. It's rarely a last-minute thing.

Are you someone that needs a lot of “hand holding” (I.e. lots of support day to day in terms of the basic job)?

I addressed this in an earlier post. No, I'm not. I've been volunteering there for a long time and the manager hardly ever needs to actually assign me any tasks, as I just show up and get on with work that needs doing. I price various categories (and look books up online before pricing them so as to see what the appropriate price would be), cull and replenish stock and go on the till when needed. I don't need any hand-holding in that, as it's all very much second nature to me now.

Do you tend to say 20 words when 3 will do in a situation

I would say I tend to do that when I'm writing but not so much when I'm speaking to someone. I'm more long-winded with the written word.

Can you honestly say you’ve gone through life and never snapped at someone, or been a bit short with them? I know I can’t, and don’t know anyone who could say that. Is it ideal? No. But it’s human and it’s understandable when someone is under pressure.

No, I can't. I can't think of a situation off-hand, but I'm sure there have been times when I haven't necessarily snapped, but I've probably been brusque. I do recognise that such incidents are innately unfair, though, which is what I'm trying to say - it's unfair whether it's me who does it or someone else who does it.

You could try, when things are calmer, saying to her “I noticed you were a little snappy earlier, is everything ok? Anything I can help with?” That way you’re telling her she was snapping at you in case she didn’t realise, but doing it kindly under the guise of caring and offering support.

Thank you for the suggestion.

@Owly11

That is a useful point as, on reflection, I couldn't say for certain if the manager does know of the autism. So your suggestion here is helpful, thank you.

@Owly11

I suppose I just can't see how asking for assistance or information could be annoying. My Dad always told me that I should never be afraid to ask for help.

In this case, the manager had been given specific information and it was a matter of making that information available to others.

but you won't just own that and move on.

That's because I don't agree that I did anything annoying. I don't think asking for assistance is annoying.

I sometimes think managing "volunteers" must be one of the hardest jobs around. Entitled , over sensitive and whining on Mumsnet.

But your manager WAS annoyed! Don't you care about your actual relationship with an actual person? Or just an imaginary relationship with how you think someone should be?