Friends villa issue

[Foodieasfuck]

My friend has asked for my opinion and I’m struggling to advise.
She and her husband own a villa in the Canary Islands. Her husband bought it when he retired 5 years ago. They have been together 30 years and each of them has adult children (of their own).

They use the villa all the time and love the flexibility of being able to go whenever it suits them so they decided not to rent it out. It is a home from home with all their personal belongings in it.

They gifted each of their adult children 1 week each there per year for free, which works well usually. Sometimes their ‘kids’ also join them when they are there but they each have a week ring fenced so that they can use it too with their own families.

She has just found out that 1 of her husbands kids didn’t actually go himself last year. He let his mate and his family use it instead (without telling them). She has since found out that he charged them for the privilege!

My friend feels that the son’s 1 week per year allocation should be withdrawn because he can’t be trusted. Her husband thinks (to save any agro) they should just stop them all using it as “it was becoming a pain anyway”. It’s causing all sorts of issues between them and they’ve gone from quite a peaceful couple to being ‘at war”.
It’s a bit of a lose/lose situation!
I’m struggling to advise her.

Whilst I agree with her that the son shouldn’t be trusted again, I can see that singling him out will continue to cause issues with her husband.

not really an Aibu more of a what would you do?
YABU = stop son using it
YANBU = stop them all using it

Lots of European countries have reciprocal tax arrangements, including with the UK, so you don’t end up with double liability.

RTFT

If I were your friends and knew my son was that cheeky, I'd be more worried about who was living in my house and paying for the privilege during the many weeks per year I was swanning around in the Canaries!

I agree.

It is unusual for a couple to be so detached from their own children that they feel the need to rely on a friend for advice on how to handle a situation with their adult children. These are their children, not their tenants.

The rather formal arrangement of granting each of their children one week's use of the villa is quite cold and contrasts with the more informal arrangements most parents would have with their adult children. They seem like a couple who are much more at ease with their friends than they are with their own children.

The whole scenario is decidedly odd.

They can if they have residencia or keep their eye on the schengen calendar. The 90 in 180 is a rolling count so as days go on used days get added back to your allowance. I visit for 2 to 3 weeks (sometimes longer) after being in UK for 3 to 6 weeks. Using the schengen "counter" app keeps me within the allowance. If they've had the property a lo g time they may well have residencia and can visit as much as they like.

This is not how schengen works its a "rolling" 90 in 180. So you can go regularly as long as you track your days. I go every few weeks for 2 to 3 weeks throughout the year. Just use an app to check my days used and forecast future stays.

Yes - you get a discount for tax already paid but you still have to do the admin of taxes in both countries and will pay if there’s extra taxes in one country vs the other. I do wonder how many people with regularly used holiday homes actually do this, but perhaps the OP’s friends do.

The son shouldn't have profited from renting out the property, so why not give him the option to pay back the rental amount plus, say 10 - 20%, to make it hurt a bit? That way he's unlikely to do it again and at least he'll not be banned. If he refuses, then ban him.

Those agreements are so that the same money doesn’t get taxed twice; they don’t have an impact on residency. If they become tax resident in Spain by spending more than half the year there, they’d have to file tax returns in Spain and unless they know the system well, they’d might have to pay someone to do this.

Don't think it's fair to punish all the kids just because one has taken advantage.
Can't they just make clear no subletting is allowed unless it's been cleared with the parents,( plus rent should be given to parents)?

I would tell the son he can’t use it again. I wouldn’t punish the other children

Because if they are retired and it’s their 2nd home presume they go there for more than 1 week at a time!

"emotions are running high" @Foodieasfuck ? What, does the son not realise what an entitled prick he'd been?

I guess, I just assumed in the summer they’d be happy to go for a week here and there rather than not at all, and they have the leisure time to do so being retired, altho travel is expensive I’ll grant you

This sounds like a really odd scenario. My Dad had a place abroad and let’s us use it and sometimes we let friends go. They can’t be going there for more than 6 months a year due to changes post Brexit. I don’t really get how it’s difficult to plan around 4 weeks in a year. Surely they consult with the parents on the dates they want to go? And can just work round each other from both sides. How did they find out the friend sub let it? Like I get if they found out a friend used it, but how could they possibly find out payment was exchanged? When I let my friend use the place ‘we’ as a family have abroad, sometimes they chuck me a few hundred quid to go for dinner/ get it cleaned etc. Everyone I know that has a holiday home wants their children/ grandchildren to benefit from it. These people sound odd that they allow then ONE WHOLE WEEK. Wow.

As someone who has a fixed (timeshare) holiday week until 2067 or until I die, it’s actually easier to organize. I can give plenty of warning to work and I know when cheap flights are on sale.
Maybe the parents wanted to give similar certainty by “gifting a week”.
It was clear from the OP that the children were welcome at other times, too.

Yeah I’d probably be ok I’m not weird about “strangers” in my home like most mumsnetter though it’s just a house. I’d be annoyed if they trashed the house but if they were respectful and my son knew them I wouldn’t be bothered, especially if I wasn’t even there that week!

Thats ridiculous! Its his son. Made ONE mistake. And punish him straight away????
Why????
Forgive and forget. And warn him that if he does it again tgere will be ban, only if he does it again.

Ban the naughty son for the next 2 years

Yeah I would be actually I don’t see the big deal I’d be more annoyed the hadn’t said but even that I’d get over it… I really don’t see all the angst here

Giving your mates the keys to your parents home for a holiday without mentioning it to or asking your parents, and profiting from it yourself isn’t a “mistake” ffs. It isn’t something you do accidentally or forget to mention. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows it’s not acceptable behaviour. It’s a calculated action and he got caught, of course a consequence is appropriate.

Stay right out of it.

I don't agree with either of your alternative actions! surely the most obvious and reasonable action at this stage is to just talk to the offender and say "we offered you this week for your own personal use, and we don't want strangers in the house"
There is a problem with the word "gifted" as it might suggest they now have a right that they wouldn't have otherwise expected to have had. Were any stipulations/rules laid out at the time this offer was made?
Time to be more specific about the conditions of the offer, and to all recipients, including being clear about the consequences of not following these, including perhaps removing the offer from anyone who flouts the rules.

@nonamesleftatall the couple have adult children, each, from first marriages. The one week is set. It means everyone knows when their slot is, there's no arguments and they can book time off, flights etc. These adults and their children aren't related to each other, their parents have got married. Then, if there's availability, the adult children can use it at other times. If someone buys a property to enjoy on retirement, they want to actually get time there and possibly without children etc. If the son wasn't using it, it should have been put back in the 'pool' for someone else to use.