Friends villa issue

[Foodieasfuck]

My friend has asked for my opinion and I’m struggling to advise.
She and her husband own a villa in the Canary Islands. Her husband bought it when he retired 5 years ago. They have been together 30 years and each of them has adult children (of their own).

They use the villa all the time and love the flexibility of being able to go whenever it suits them so they decided not to rent it out. It is a home from home with all their personal belongings in it.

They gifted each of their adult children 1 week each there per year for free, which works well usually. Sometimes their ‘kids’ also join them when they are there but they each have a week ring fenced so that they can use it too with their own families.

She has just found out that 1 of her husbands kids didn’t actually go himself last year. He let his mate and his family use it instead (without telling them). She has since found out that he charged them for the privilege!

My friend feels that the son’s 1 week per year allocation should be withdrawn because he can’t be trusted. Her husband thinks (to save any agro) they should just stop them all using it as “it was becoming a pain anyway”. It’s causing all sorts of issues between them and they’ve gone from quite a peaceful couple to being ‘at war”.
It’s a bit of a lose/lose situation!
I’m struggling to advise her.

Whilst I agree with her that the son shouldn’t be trusted again, I can see that singling him out will continue to cause issues with her husband.

not really an Aibu more of a what would you do?
YABU = stop son using it
YANBU = stop them all using it

I agree with most posters here that you lay out the ground rules, but you also make the son aware that he has been out of order.:

Dear DCs, just to remind you, our villa is our home, not a business enterprise. It is not set up for private sublets in terms of the possessions and personal items we keep there, or the insurances and registrations in the country it is located in. Subletting it is illegal and puts anyone using it, as well as ourselves, at risk.

Until now we have happily arranged for each of you to have exclusive access for one week a year as we understand that having the oldies underfoot every time you visit can be limiting and you benefit from a week away with your own partners and families.

However, pls understand that we are not gifting you a timeshare that you can sublet. The property is NOT for use by anyone other than family and our own personal friends when they accompany us as guests. If you cannot use your week, you cannot ‘rent it out’. For those that mistakenly thought this was the case, I am afraid your exclusive access is suspended for now.

To know that there have been strangers in our property without our permission is deeply upsetting and an abuse of our trust. If anyone has already made any profit from any such sublet, we will be requesting reimbursement for running costs and wear and tear for that week.

Regards, @Foodieasfuck‘s friend and OH

Yeah I think I’d do this. Has the son apologised? One more chance and you lose the privilege If you do it again.

If it was me, I’d continue with the current arrangement but make it crystal clear that if the privilege was abused again, it would be completely off the table for the offending party.

I’d go as far as to send an email to everyone, reminding them of the rules and expectations surrounding the generous gift. Then everyone is on the same page.

I think a lot of it depends on the attitude of the son who did this, and the relationship in general. If he’s always been difficult, then my approach would be different than if he’d never put a foot wrong before. Also, is he apologetic? Does he realise that what he did was wrong? Or has he just shrugged and said “yeah tough shit”?

There’s no way I’d ban all the kids from having their free week. Why punish the ones who did nothing wrong? It would cause friction between them all too, as they’d naturally feel angry with the son who ruined it for them all.

I think my approach would be to explain calmly but firmly, that the arrangement is a privilege, not to be abused. Remind them that this villa is like their home, so the kids shouldn’t sublet it any more than they’d sublet their own homes for a week. And to reduce the risk of this happening again, I’d tell them that there’s no public liability insurance for non family, so they’re opening themselves up to huge risk.

Why can't he just tell his son not to sublet again and leave it at that. Presumably he's not 4 where he needs consequences to help him learn. Just have a grown up conversation about it. I'd be very pissed off about them not telling you and charging money but still think it's a lot of drama that families don't need. What's done is done. Don't do it again. Move on.

I agree with the PP who said a lot depends on the son’s attitude.

If he is apologetic, offering to repay the money, or has bought a nice gift to say sorry, I’d let it go and just make sure everyone understands no subletting in future.

If he couldn’t give a monkeys then I’d withdraw his week (and as a bonus this means the parents get one week back to use it themselves).

I certainly wouldn’t withdraw it from all the kids, how unfair.

My guess is the DH’s view is strongly coloured by this being his son only and not wanting to be seen to treat him differently. But as pp say, he acted differently.

I imagine their home insurance would be invalid if something had happened when it had been rented out to the son's paying guests. It might be worth them double checking it covers those weeks when it's just the kids staying. If it doesn't, then that would be a valid reason to stop letting any of them use it. If it's already causing issues outside of the son subletting, then ultimately they should put their relationship before giving the kids a cheap holiday.

I came on to say the same thing. It must be easy to find 4 weeks for the family to use as you can only go 13 weeks out of 26.

It's crap to punish all children because of the shit behaviour of one of them.

Unless they are non uk citizens there will be a limit to the time they can spend there anyway so not having 4 weeks doesn't seem to be a huge pain.

I think it's a bit odd that the husband is making such a bog deal about this, the wife hasn't done anything wrong but he sounds disproportionately angry. It sounds like there is an issue with his son but he would rather confront his wife. No way would I want to remove a privilege I'd given to my children for years just because he was scared of his sons reaction to the consequences of his actions.

Well that son is a CF and i would ve telling them in no uncertain terms they were bang out of order and I expect them to donate the money they ‘made’ and they can forget their week this year, then see how it goes

Why should the other DC miss out though? they haven’t done anything wrong and I think it will cause hurt/upset if it’s taken away

I can’t see it’s that much of a pain to the parents to still let them go as they originally gifted them - it’s only 4 weeks a year! They still have 48 weeks they can go 🤷‍♀️

I would get all the children to sign an agreement that they are not allowed to sublet in future, and ask the son who did to either pay the money they got to the couple who own it, or pay for their next stay to compensate the owners for the breach of trust.
Pretty sure that insurance would have been adversely affected by allowing people other than family to use it in the absence of the owners…

He deliberately didn't mention that he was subletting his week and making money out of it, if he thinks you don't know what's to say he won't do the same thing again. I'd have a conversation with him and ask why he felt he didn't need to ask if it would be ok for him to do so, and if his answer is it was his week so he could do as he pleased I'd removed the privilege as he can't be trusted not to do it again.

I think it's wrong to punish the other DC when they've done nothing wrong.

Surely if you take the privilege away from them all, the fallout will be much greater with the siblings angry about this guy spoiling it all for them. The least divisive action would be to remove this man's visit considering he lied and profited from his actions.

Yes, it’s a bit mad and bureaucratic. The parents are just letting their adult children use their holiday home. They should just reiterate that it’s only for them, the children, not for sublets to people the parents’ don’t know.

Hasn't she pointed out to dh that by banning them all rather than dealing with ds, it will massively escalate the situation as the other kids will resent ds?

I'd maybe say "OK dh, if that's your position, fine, we will tell them all that the 1 week each is rescinded because of ds. I'm not covering up the reason."

He will cave when his other kids get on at him.

The son is a CF so he’s the one who should face the consequences

everyone else should carry on as they are

Was it made clear from the start that no one else was allowed to use it?

Whats the rule on them going but also inviting PIL or friends?

I think if it wasn’t made clear then I would not stop him using it and I wouldn’t single him out.

What’s the point in ruining your relationship over something that’s not a big deal and has already happened.

I would drop it completely and say in future these are the rules.
But then in a couple of months I would say that none of the DCs can use it without DH there as it’s causing problems with trying to arrange things around them.

It seems to me that banning all the children from holidaying in the property is the equivalent of the lazy teacher who gives a whole class detention when only 2 or 3 of the kids misbehaved. I would revoke the son's use of the property for one year and remind everyone that your friend doesn't want them to sublet their weeks.

This is exactly what I’d do. Theres no point going nuclear and upsetting the whole family over this. Just reset the ground rules and carry on.

I think he means that is it ‘becoming a pain’ as they have to factor in these 4 weeks every year which means they can’t go then

Yeah - thats not it. 4 weeks out of 52 leaves 48

I can’t really wrap my head around the parents ‘gifting’ their kids one week a year! We have a family house in Spain. We could go whenever we wanted. Of course we cleared it with my parents in case they had already lent it to someone. Even if they were there (and the last few years they were there six months out of the year), they were totally happy with anyone coming. They only lent it to non family occasionally and just charged the cleaning fee.
Anyway I agree it was completely wrong for their son to lend it to outsiders without permission, and triply so to charge for it! For one thing you need a license for what was in effect a holiday let, and specific regulations and insurance. He was stupid to risk this as well as rude.
I think it’s fair enough to then restrict this son’s use.

Rich people problems.

"Please don't do that again'.

And move on.

This is a bizarrely specific and outing post to make about someone else; is she aware you’ve done this?

Anyway.

Has anyone said “Look Jim, that was never the agreement, and we feel you’ve broken our trust here. This house is our property and it’s for us to decide who goes there. It’s even more bizarre that you felt able to charge for it. We’ll need your word that won’t happen again, or sadly we won’t be able to let you use it in the future.”

OR maybe your husband knew all along….

I can actually see how letting 4 different children have it for a week each could be a pain……

DC1 2nd week in July
DC2 last week
DC3 2nd week in August
DC4 last week

This means the villa owners can either only go for 1 week at a time over that period or can’t use it at all during July and August

If the owners are trying to mitigate this by juggling/managing people’s requests then yeah, it would get tedious after a while!

perhaps the DC taking the piss is the straw that broke the camels back