To think the 'Troubles Northern Ireland 1969-1997' ensured the Grammar system stayed in operation In Northern Ireland, thus is now the best education system in the United Kingdom.

[redange]

I do wonder if the Troubles that were ongoing in Northern Ireland between 1969-1997 meant that there was to much going on for the destruction of Grammar Schools to begin. Throughout, the 1960s and 1970s over 1000 Grammar schools were closed in England and Wales going from 1,296 in 1965 1 to the present 164 .The present 164 are in located usually in traditionally Conservative local areas in England. The Most Northern being Ripon Grammar in North Yorkshire, the most southern being Churston Ferrers in Torbay Devon. The survival of the current Grammar schools being down to local councils and County Councils such as Kent and Trafford acting against Government demands initially from Harold Wilson's 1965 Labour Government and then from across the political spectrum, with Margaret Thatcher closing more Grammar Schools than Labour.

However, it is obvious that with all that was going on in Northern Ireland political left wing dogma about Education in the 1970's was not at the forefront of discussion. The, result being that the destruction of the education system that was going on in England and left Wales devoid of any Grammar Schools did not take place in Northern Ireland. The result which is often backed up when i meet people from Northern Ireland being that the Grammar School system has advanced those from Northern Ireland to be the most educated in the United Kingdom. Therefore, it makes me quite sad that now Northern Ireland is politically 'stable' that Sein Fein are acting like any left wing political party and seeking the abolition of the Transfer Tests (known in England as the 11+). Why, cant Sein Fein except that one of the 'benefits' of the Troubles was an education system that has educated Catholics and Protestants greatly above those from say Wrexham. Indeed the Catholic and Non Secular Grammar Schools in Northern Ireland have ensured that only a very small Private Sector needs to exist.

I agree re: leisure centres. I live in Belfast and there are at least 6 pools / leisure centres within a reasonably short distance of me - Lisnasharragh, Templemore, Grove, Andersonstown, Valley and Bangor Aurora. If you include Ards Blair Mayne and Lagan Valley Leisureplex it's 8 and those are only the ones i can remember!

Colleagues in the west tell me waiting lists for swimming lessons etc. are long and there's nowhere near as much choice as around Belfast.

NI is so much better in some respects and so far away in others, it’s a bit of a head melter. My nearest town has about 3000 people more than Eniskillen but only has one secondary school that finishes at 16 (nearest post 16 education is about 10 miles away), a small library, a health centre and a leisure centre in terms of amenities. Enniskillen has multiple secondaries, colleges, Erne Hospital, the Ardhowen and a boatload other public amenities that would be unthinkable in a similar sized English town. I get that Enniskillen is a rural centre and that we have other options closer to us in England, but I don’t think people in NI realise how far public services have been cut in England. Our roads were better in Roman times too!

We do seem to do SEN better. I was appalled at how my nephew was treated at primary.

In England we have units in Grammar Schools for high functioning children with SEN (Southend On Sea)

SHSB proudly values the abilities and achievements of all and is committed to providing each student with the best possible environment for learning. Some students may have difficulties during their school life and every student will be helped to try to overcome these. Central to our ethos is that we set all students on the path towards young adulthood with the highest aspirations and equipped to make a positive and worthwhile contribution to society.
The provision for pupils with SEND is a whole-school responsibility and our intention is always to provide support in such a way as to meet the needs of pupils, without making them feel unnecessarily different from their peers. This is most effective when the school, pupil and parents are working closely towards shared goals.
Throughout a pupil’s time at SHSB, we aim to ensure:

• The views of the pupil are always considered
• There is regular, positive home/school communication
• All parties have confidence in the diagnosis of SEND and are fully informed of the best strategies to meet the pupil’s SEND.
• Positive and constructive advice, support and strategies are provided by relevant external agencies.
• Reasonable adjustments are made and support provided to ensure pupils with SEND have the same opportunities as all pupils
• An emphasis is placed on providing pupils with SEND the skills to manage their difficulties as independently as possible and be prepared for life after school.

The SENDCo at SHSB is Gareth March; please contact via [email protected]. Information about Southend Borough Council’s ‘Local Offer’ can be found here: www.livewellsouthend.com 11+ Tests Through the CSSE procedures it is possible for special arrangements to be made with regard to pupils with SEND and disabilities (including medical issues) sitting the 11+ selective tests. Autism Resource Base To welcome and support pupils with additional challenges in their educational lives is central to our school ethos and it was with great excitement that we welcomed the first cohort into the Autism Resource Base (ARB) at Southend High School for Boys in September 2023. The base provides the transitionary environment that gives pupils direct access to a mainstream curriculum, alongside specialised accommodation, support and resources. Admissions to the ARB are overseen by Southend City Council and places are available to a limited number of pupils with both an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) and evidence of an autistic spectrum condition (ASC). Please see the leaflet attached below. Neuro Ambassadors: Empowering Understanding and Inclusion In this inspiring video, pupils and staff share their personal experiences of the transformative impact of the Neuro Ambassadors programme within our school. Designed to educate all students, whether neurodivergent or not, about neurodiversity, the programme celebrates the strengths of a neurodiverse society and fosters a culture of empathy, awareness, and mutual support. Hear firsthand how this initiative has helped build a more inclusive environment where every learner feels seen, valued, and empowered.

FannyUncanny · Today 13:37
Delicious irony that a thread about the best education system in the UK should have a grammatical error in the title.

That's why i was Bottom set for English.. However, I have managed to get 228 interactions from 'bored' people..

SEN is a quagmire at the moment in NI. A classroom assistant is seen as the answer to everything. EHCPs in England are much more specific, detailed, and legally binding.

It very definitely resulted in Catholics aiming for higher education, because unskilled/ school leaver jobs in industry (H&W, etc) weren't going to be available, nor were unskilled or low skilled local government jobs. At one point, it was reported that protestants/ Unionists felt that QUB was not a friendly environment for them as it was full of Catholics. Catholics from NI also went to Irish universities. In recent years, white working class protestant boys were reported to have the lowest attainment levels in formal education in NI. This was put down to a failure by their community to adapt to the end of the industrial era and the increasing importance of the information economy.

Statements are also legally binding. But SEN provision is a mess unfortunately

Which bit of this are you seeking evidence for? The discrimination history is well established. You won’t have to go far to find details in history books.

I suspect most people that the poster knows were nice middle class types who were unaffected.

It is true that people in working class communities were disproportionately affected though.

Me too, @Dysonquery - those teachers took no prisoners.

Grammar schools do still exist in England, although most secondary schools are now comprehensive.

The grammar school that I attended in Kent in the 1970s is still a grammar school. I think there are still a lot of them in Kent.

I'm not convinced that it's a better system. My children both went to university and got good degrees. I didn't. I left school at 18 with one A-level and six O-levels.

In England the Grammar School system exists in 163 Grammar Schools of which there are about 57 Girls 60 Boys and the rest are mixed. Also in England a large number of Single Sex Grammar schools are mixed in the Sixth Form . The areas that are full on selective areas are. Kent, Buckinghamshire, Medway, Slough, Bournemouth/Poole Devon, Gloucestershire Birmingham,Sutton Coldfield (West Midlands) Warwickshire, Trafford, Wirral, Lincolnshire, Southend. Other Grammar schools are located in Liverpool, Essex, Calderdale, Kirklees(West Yorkshire) Stoke on Trent, (Staffordshire)Newport, Wolverhampton , North Yorkshire, Lancashire and one Queen Elizabeth in Penrith Cumbria. And there is Hertfordshire that offers 'Grammar' Schools that Officially are not Grammar Schools ! Such as 'Watford Girls/boys Grammar' (which are Grammars but aren't) Dame Alice Owens which apparently is a Selective 'Comprehensive' Whatever that is. In reality, it slight of hands trickery to get round the 'stupid' No new Grammar Schools to be introduced rule Labour 1997 ! .

Considering

I missed Bromley, Kingston, Sutton, Reading and Redbridge....

I attended a grammar school in Northern Ireland. My father used to bribe me with ££££ when I came first in tests/ exams……it worked well 🤣. There was no £££ for second place.🥈

And has this advantaged you in the long run?

Yes it has. Both financially and personal resilience (where failure/giving up is not an option). Probably set me up pretty well to be fair.