To feel that DD2 has ruined ours lives

[Hoverflies]

She is 3.5. Every single day since she was born has been so hard. She fed constantly as a baby and if she was awake and not feeding she was screaming. She was never content as a baby, never slept well and ever since has been screaming at us every single day for huge portions of the day. She has a meltdown multiple times per hour, she screams at us all and hits us constantly and her sister. Every day involves her changing her clothes constantly and screaming that it's too tight, too loose, doesn't feel right. She won't wear any shoes. The car seat is too tight, its too loose, its wonky. She's constantly destroying things and throwing things. She's been screaming got most of the evening because she's hungry but won't eat any of the food, she's cold but won't wear any clothes, she's exhausted but she won't go to bed.

But then at other times and with other people she is a delight. Smiley, funny and happy. Very clever. People actually think we are making it up! Meanwhile we are actually thinking we might need to move house because the walls are so thin that the neighbours will be hearing screaming for almost the entire time we are at home.

We have basically spent the time she has been alive extremely stressed and exhausted. Our good relationship with DD1 was destroyed as we had hardly any energy for her and I end up taking things out on her and being too hard on her. We like to play games together and read and do crafts but it's so hard when DD2 is around because she just ruins it every time. I can barely hear what DD1 is saying to me most of the time over the shouting. My relationship with DP is in the toilet because of the stress.

I don't know if she has PDA or if she has got extremely high cortisol levels as she was basically starved as a newborn, she lost so much weight and took months to put it back on because she couldn't feed properly.

I constantly think of the lovely time we would all be having without her here which I know is awful. I do love her so much but our lives at the moment feel far worse for her being here.

Yes I did

Sounds like you have an autistic kid.
She's just like my son of the same age.
She's having an incredibly tough time, not trying to give everyone else one.
She's dysregulated and uncomfortable.
You need to work on strategies to calm her, and clothes she does like, chairs she can manage and generally how to manage her regulation. And foods that are pretty much always able to be eaten
It will make her much happier and she will be easier to deal with.

As opposed to the parenting experts who diagnose that all that's needed is strict boundand discipline?!!

There needs to be boundaries and discipline (SEN or no SEN) or they will walk all over us, Which they actually are all doing pretty well IME.

Record a few hours of her behaviour, and take her to a pediatrician, and an OT.
Pay whatever money it costs to get whatever diagnosis and support she needs.

Don't go to a GP who will fob you off.

Yes to this. An allergist would be a good idea on top of the pediatrician and OT.

If she got PDA then it can be hell on earth. My daughter probably has PDA ( she has a ASD diagnosis). And she was a fucking nightmare. Things are better now. She is actually fine right now. I do not do gentle parenting but neither do I bait her. Think of the fire triangle. I merely remove the oxygen to feed her flames. Let her dress herself. Don't buy lots of outfits. Let her choose one outfit to buy every few months. Less is less overwhelm in choice. I love her ferociously but she is a shit. I'm no saint. Sorry why should I fawn at the crap hand dd was dealt?

My son us severely disabled. His younger years was heartbreakingly hard. No one understood his actions. We had zero understanding or kindness. I was blamed for everything. Do you know what? He rocks now.

It can get better. I look back at all that pain and I wish me today could go back in time and give the old me a massive hug and say "we are going to be OK. This is going to get better. Your kids are going to amaze you"

Somassive hug from me. If dd is ND never let anyone guilt you into fawning that's all rainbows and butterflies and you need to be a saint

I have an adult daughter who was diagnosed with PDA as a child and I had to learn to parent without the sort of boundaries that many parenting "experts" dishing out advice on mumsnet often suggest. It doesnt mean anarchy - it means creating a low demand environment, de escalation techniques, remaining vigilant at all times to nip disregulation in the bud. It is not lazy or passive parenting. It involves getting your child to trust you, that you understand their needs and are always acting in their best interests. And sometimes that means not bothering with petty stuff that other parents would find non negotiable. My daughter knew the limits - but so did I. With pda you can't act as a mini dictator, setting often irrational rules and boundaries just because you can.

I mean, they’re not wrong! It’s pivotal for me to have strict boundaries. Non negotiables. Otherwise I’d have a child walk all over me and think they can do whatever they want!

I prefer the parent who says be firm/strict to the parent who says it’s PDA, it’s not their fault.

With pda you can't act as a mini dictator, setting often irrational rules and boundaries just because you can.

but without pda, you can? Because you think that's what parenting is, and setting rules is?

It involves getting your child to trust you, that you understand their needs and are always acting in their best interests.
and that's not simply parenting?

good grief.

If you want to improve your situation ignore this advice.

Agreed, and IMO irrelevant whether she has SEN or not, this comment is still correct. She is only 3. My second was like this and he still is a bit at 8 but he slowly calms down a little every year and is an incredibly kind brother to his little sister.

That really sounds so hard. I would agree with all the posters saying you need to seek professional help from gp/paediatrician. The clothing issue sounds like sensory processing. My dd was difficult with clothing, not to that level, but from a very young age, I had to let her choose her own clothes every day. She always looked random and scruffy and I would get disapproving looks/comments over the fact she refused to wear a coat- but we were able to get out and about. When she started school, her primary school just wore tracksuits which she was happy with.
Ds then had various sensory processing issues, and was difficult, that was when I discovered sensory processing disorder, and the various forms of it. He was also diagnosed with auditory processing disorder when he was 3, and that was a huge relief- I'd had the sense that when I gave/made simple demands/instructions they just wasn't being heard, as though there was a breakdown of dialogue. anyway a really good speech therapist diagnosed that and worked with us to resolve that over a year or so.
Is time outside/ fresh air and running around something that soothes her? I know it's not easy though, because you have to ensure safety of both children when you're out, and be able to leave when you want to. Is it possible to avoid car trips for now, as the seat belt causes distress? I'm not in the UK but we always found when visiting, the hard based carseats that older children have to use in the Uk were really hard and uncomfortable- we just didn't use them.
oh and one suggestion- my dd was very into arts and crafts- we established a sort of desk area for her that her brother couldn't access, behind a safety gate, so she was able to spend hours and hours doing her thing undisturbed, and she could leave her stuff out and come back to it if she wanted to.

Perhaps you could read the rest of my post where I suggest OT, and specific information OP could research while she is waiting because a diagnosis will take a very long time....

You can definitely have rules and boundaries with ND kids, but you have to get them regulated first. Then deal with everything else. It's not an either/or thing.

So ditch the clothes that are an issue, don't take her to places she finds hard if you can help it (maybe they're echoey, or difficult in a way you can't understand). There's really no point in making a battle over socks the cornerstone of your relationship. Find out what calms her- swinging, bouncing, climbing, pressure- and look to do that as much as possible. One of mine spent a lot of time in the buggy under a blanket and with the hood over her. Fine. Not a battle worth fighting.

And second all the stuff about getting the HV involved, it's a lot easier before they are 5. For your older daughter, divide and conquer and take her out separately for 'quality time' without her sister.

She sounds not unlike one of mine who is now an utterly delightfully autistic 11 yo. It is hard work, but you'll need to run an ND friendly house which might not look like how you imagined it.

Excellent advice @Dinnerplease i would say you need to sometimes have even more rules and regulations with ND children. Structured predictable routines, and sequences within a routine (left leg in trousers first etc) can be really important. It's about establishing the routine that works best but as you say only after regulation.

This is good advice.
But be aware that children with PDA often don't like routines. They like spontaneity and novelty.
I know that this doesn't help much. But many things that are suggested for autistic children, eg timers, reward charts etc, aren't so helpful for those with PDA.
Edited to say: I am laughing thinking a out the look my daughter would give me if I tried to suggest a routine whereby she puts one particular leg in her trousers first every day.
( Not criticising your suggestion, but have long practice with a highly critical child with a sardonic sense of humour and view of things)

Like many PPs, I think you should have her assessed for neuro developmental differences. In the meantime, if you can afford, a sensory OT assessment and therapy plan could be very helpful in improving your day to day life. Understanding our DC's sensory differences is the thing that has had the biggest impact on improving our homelife. DC had some of the same issues as yor DD (constant feeding, serious,sleep issues etc) as well as different ones, and it helped massively to understand DC sensory needs and implement strategies. DC is 11 now and still does not sleep so well, but it is much better.

The feeding/hunger issues might be to do with interoception (sensory) differences, so OT can help with strategies for this.

DD clearly needs lots of help with co-regulation. This can often be hard for you and DP as parents, especially if you are also ND and have a sensory clash with DD. Ask the sensory OT about this, they can advise on strategies.

Good luck! It is really really hard, but it can get better with support.

Hi! My youngest DD was like this and still is to some degree. I'm afraid to wake her up in the mornings because she scares me! My DM said out of all the grandkids she is the hardest to look after. She has always been very fiery with an aggressive temperament. I explored the idea of her being potentially neurodiverse however dont think this is the case. She overachieves in school abd at parents even I'm told shes head girl material! I was like pardon?! She's the most loving little girls one minute then will straight up kick you in the shins for looking at her wrong the next minute. I want to reassure you that I gets better as they get older. Mine is 7 now and her behaviour has improved recently. I was worried about her ruining her own childhood and also ruining it for my other DD who is 10 and the total opposite to her. I'm always told her will go far in life with her fiery attitude. She gets bullied in school sometimes and I wonder how she doesn't just deck the young lad! She knows who she has to behave for and who she can act up in front of. Dreading the teenage years! All the best to you OP and be kind to yourself, I did and still do carry a lot of guilt for shouting back and being at the end of my tether but it is so hard! X

I agree. Neurodivergent most likely and good luck with your life. I know plenty of people say ‘it’s their superpower and I wouldn’t change them’ but its so hard. Every photo, every holiday, every dinner time, every single day is about them.
All the very best to you x

If she is neurodivergent, she is not going to ‘learn lessons’ she will continue until YOU learn the lesson.

You have been advocating ignoring the child's needs throughout this entire thread, encouraging the OP to be stricter. So no, you clearly don't think that.

I don't get why people say that. You wouldn't say deafness is a superpower or blindness so why say it about autism?

I’m with you if it’s a tantrum, but it’s probably a meltdown from what the OP has said. My daughter has had a problem with socks not feeling right since she was 1 and able to say that’s what was wrong. She was super easy going in terms of temperament back then and didn’t start becoming a stroppy toddler who had tantrums and pushed boundaries until 2.5 but would cry and scream about her socks not feeling right. I have just bought her winter clothes and got her to try everything on to see if she feels comfortable in it so I can only get things that she feels okay in, as she’s already got to wear uniform that doesn’t feel good the rest of the time. Of course now she’s older I see that the more emotionally unsettled/nervous etc. she is, the more sensitive she is about her clothes, but I will absolutely offer my child choices that will make them feel happier and more comfortable where I’m able to, when we have to accept often in life we have to do things that aren’t our preference.

you have described one of my children.
things that have helped

visual timetable daily planner- Amazon (have a look it’s self explanatory)

choices for everything - (tiring for you but may well work) for example
‘what colour are you wearing today’ when she decides ask her ‘am I choosing a blue outfit for you or shall we do it together’ either way it will hopefully help her feel more in control. Including allowing her to wear a Halloween costume in may to Tesco etc.

Meltdowns
Have a look at a sensory room in a spare room preferably but if not her bedroom or the living room if possible. Sensory swing, sensory body sock, sensory lights etc have a look on Amazon

Shoes
Take her to any and every shoe shop and let her pick any shoes. Mine went thought a phase of only wearing wellies despite the weather. Let her wear crocs in the rain etc. have a look at barefoot shoes. They are like socks.

Car seat
Get ahead of it. You know she’s going to be upset by it so day to her ‘do you want to check the car seat before we go?’ Let her sit in it and she will say her issue and agree with her. Say things like ‘ahh yes it does seem too tight/wonky, silly car seat’ and just make it look like you are adjusting it and say ‘oh try that’ and repeat

Food
Have a cupboard low down in the kitchen with tins, snacks, fruit etc and when she is hungry ask her to ‘come and have a look or shall mummy chose from YOUR cupboard’ and see how that goes. Whatever she decides tell her ‘great choice’ and let her eat whatever

Clothes at home
Does she need to have clothes on at least in the house? Mine doesn’t and it works. Mine is less stressed and I’m less stressed

Bed
Ahhhh the dreaded bedtime. Assuming you’ve tried lavender room spray, new bedding, pjs, no pjs, light dimming in the living room every 5 minutes before she goes up, white noise etc
Things to at help us… sometimes
Sleeping bag
Tonie box
iPad in bed 😬😬😬😬I know I know but when you’ve had 3 hours sleep max every night for 3 years you aren’t functioning as a parent.
Skipping the bath before bed routine that stressed mine out it was like they knew bedtime was coming so the stress started to build as soon as I started running the bath.

Masking
Sounds like she is masking well and then letting it all out at home in her safe space. Which is good really as it means she’s so safe I’m with you. Could soundproof the sensory room/living room if financially doable

Dd1
Needs time with you alone and with your DH alone. Perhaps you have dd1 on Sunday afternoon and dd2 with your husband on Sunday afternoons and switch every week. Only need to be an hour or so doing something together. Little coffee shop visit, trip to the pound shop, etc. both do the same activity just separately.

Play therapy
May well help. Perhaps she has some sort of trauma from the feeding issues so young

im assuming DD1 isn’t like this so it’s not a case of you pandering or causing the behaviour it’s something that dd2 is struggling with

You are doing amazing Op. do not kick yourself. This is a tricky situation. But you are not alone