Why the dislike for larger families?

[momtoboys]

Posting here for traffic.

There was a post yesterday from a mom who had five children. I was surprised at the level of vitriol leveled at her for her larger than normal family. Things were said such as “you can’t properly parent five children”, “well, that’s your fault for having so many children”!

I have five children who are now grown. It made me wonder if people in my real world were thinking those mean things about my family. Why does it seem to be such a big deal? People choose the number of children that will complete their families. For some families it is one. Others it is six. Why do people seem to judge harshly if it is a higher number?

I am one of six.

In my entire childhood I had one day where it was just her and me all day, I treasure that one day.

None of my siblings or I have large families.

Mil created useless hubby?

Probably. People look down on you for having many children, particularly if they have different dads. Or if you belong to an ethnic minority.

@Ddakji I get hate in real life too! I was specifically talking about mumsnet I obviously can't hide it in real life! 🙄 sorry you feel judged for having one but trust me people judge large families much more "they all YOURS" "YOU MUST BE BORED DONT HAVE A TV" "GOT YOUR HANDS FULL HAVENT YOU" all said by random strangers so yes I have "lived it" Easier to hide it on mumsnet though to avoid the hate.

Exactly people look down on those that have lots of children! Irl and online.

100% this.

SIL has 4, age 6 and under. I think she’s bonkers. But she has the money and help to do so. However I do think she shouldn’t have any more, at least until the little ones get older. They need her attention (and BILs!)

He's an adult. Surely we have to stop blaming the parents (and that's not just mum) at some point?

IMO the only disdain is for large families who can’t afford to support their kids without assistance. A view which i sympathise with, the headlines that read “my house can’t fit my family” looking for a council relocation get on my nerves - because my house wouldn’t be big enough either if I had several more kids.

Otherwise I admire large families (my DH is from one) and wish I had the mental resilience to parent more than two kids.

I don't think negatively about large families per se but I do come from a big family (eldest of 6) and I had 0 1-1 time with my mum (Dad wasn't in picture but siblings dad's were), we got cheapest of the cheap food and sometimes only fed a tin of tesco value beans for tea (about half tin each), often had to wear clothes too small as mum couldn't afford to buy them, we had to share bathwater and we was only permitted to bath once a week even going into puberty, wasn't allowed to change uniform all week so had to wear the same clothes from Monday morning until Friday Night as wasn't allowed to get changed after school unless pj's at night again same pair every night (mum didn't want the extra washing), wasn't allowed more than £1.50 for our dinner in secondary school despite it not being enough (all that could be afforded) I often didn't buy lunch and ate chips from chip shop after school and yes change from the lunch money was expected so couldn't be saved for something decent the next day. We did get bullied for this. I also was expected to parent my siblings and I potty trained 3 of them, if they misbehaved it was me to blame. Basically my mum had more kids then she could handle because she loves babies (not so much kids) but that was my experience of having a large family. How my mum wasn't reported to social services I'll never know.

Ultimately if you can give your kids enough financial ( just enough to feed decent meals, clothe adequately and keep their personal hygiene to a good standard), emotional and physical resources to give each child equally and parent your kids yourself not the older siblings then no hate have as many kids as you please but if you can't/or barely can do these things and continue to have more children then that is awful and that's where I think it isn't a good idea to have a big family.

Is that not a mean bitter little comment?

I don’t think anyone actually hates the individuals.
It’s incredibly bad for the environment. The birth rate really needs to drop.
It’s very tedious when women who have more children then complain about money/help/ errant men. Childbirth is a feminist issue. More children does not make you a better female.

These days most people turn against the OP, whatever the topic. That’s what I notice most.

I do think there is a fair bit of disdain on MN for larger families.

I don't buy the replacement rate stuff, large families are not bumping up the growth rate even to steady state, the population is declining.

A lot of it is classism, imo. Stuff like "kids without their own bedrooms are suffering from abusive neglect" weirdness.

I think the 'not look after them properly thing' can also have a pretty artificially high bar.

No-one wants to see children actually neglected, but I (and most of the parents I mix with) were also brought up in a culture of proto-helicoptering/snobbery in which parents were 'failing' their children if they weren't actively supporting schoolwork plus afterschool clubs and music plus doing 'cultural capital' trips regularly at the weekend.

So that is the bar I automatically use to decide if I think a child is 'not getting enough' (unless I deliberately think about it and choose not to), rather than the social services bar of not having a bedframe or adequate food in the fridge. And whilst the above is extremely accessible with two children and possible with three or even four, it starts to really get logistically awkward with five and above (unless they are split into two groups with a decade between, which is actually the most common way of having 3 or 4 children that I encounter - two goes round having an only or a pair).

Thank you for all of the replies. I do know that the OP from yesterday was made a MN mistake of thinking a grandparent should be willing to help out. I also could sense from her post that she was struggling at that moment. I don't care if you have one child or ten, every mother has struggled at one time or another and could use a helping hand. Now, the vaping 16 year old is a whole different matter! 😂

@momtoboys The oldest child on the other thread was not being lumbered with childcare! he was though, just lying on his bed vaping!!!! so that is how the family live!!

@CinnamonBuns67 my DH has similar stories. As soon as they could all get a gym membership him and all his siblings did so they could shower! MIL allowed 2 minutes, twice a week. They had to lather up and quickly rinse and she would turn the hot water off after the two minutes. DH recalls being constantly hungry. Well meaning neighbours who worked at a bakery dropped off bread and he swears that was what kept them from total starvation.

All of his siblings (and DH) have been divorced and I do wonder if there’s something in it that they struggle with forming relationships because they see them as functional and not romantic. They have all sought status in their partners/spouses rather than personalities.

MIL used to rule with force, although I think she was well meaning and probably a good mum (DH says so) but she was clearly isolated with a lot of kids - FIL used to work away from home a lot.

Mumsnet is never the same as thr real world. Take it all with a pinch of salt.

I think everyone on mn is angry about everything really now, and given now a lot of people seem to be asking why anyone has children at all, Id guess there’s a lot that can’t understand people having 3/4!

I don't really care how many kids people have. As long as they can financially and emotionally support them all.

I guess I don't understand people having absolutely loads. Like that family on the telly, the Radfords. It just makes me think the kids are having to do childcare from such a young age, and they have so little personal space. And their parents time would be divided amongst them too thinly to feel like they're getting enough attention?

I'm not sure I can keep up with all these people I'm meant to hate. Small families, big families, the wealthy for not paying enough tax, the poor for being poor, the disabled, the abled for being ableist, immigrants, patriotic brits, men. Where do people get the time?

I'm from a background where larger families are 'normal' so a large family per se doesn't bother me at all. From a governmental policy perspective larger families are more likely to rely on benefits, require social services intervention and the DC are less likely to do well academically - all of which is fed through the media, so there is often the immediate knee jerk reaction to larger families that they are feckless and scroungers.

I really hate when people with larger families complain incessantly how expensive things are (days out, soft play, restaurants etc) and say "how do they expect us to afford that?!" and complain it's unfair etc. Unless you gave birth to quintuplets, your 5 DC did not arrive on the doorstep one day, so surely you must have been aware that each child was going to increase costs!

That wasn't a "we all hate large families" thread. It was "don't blame your MIL for your self inflicted problems" thread.

Have all the kids you want, but take some responsibility for the amount you can manage. There's no such thing as a surprise 5th child in 21st century Britain. Stop before you reach your limit.

The Radfords going on the TV was both the best and worst thing for them. Obviously they have a lot more money now (they used to lock the kitchen to stop the DC eating food) but a lot of their original lies ("we've done this all ourselves!") have been exposed.
I watched all of those families and followed them on Facebook, and the one thing they all had in common was the parents definitely are not the brightest. A lot of DV too.

There are too many people in the world already, that's why people judge large families.

But they also judge mums of one child (or none) for being selfish.

So you can't win.

The only perfect family is 2 children I think, Any more or any less, and you're "selfish". Such an overused word.