Why the dislike for larger families?

[momtoboys]

Posting here for traffic.

There was a post yesterday from a mom who had five children. I was surprised at the level of vitriol leveled at her for her larger than normal family. Things were said such as “you can’t properly parent five children”, “well, that’s your fault for having so many children”!

I have five children who are now grown. It made me wonder if people in my real world were thinking those mean things about my family. Why does it seem to be such a big deal? People choose the number of children that will complete their families. For some families it is one. Others it is six. Why do people seem to judge harshly if it is a higher number?

I don't know if the person you are mentioning is me but I have five sons. The oldest is 27, two that are 25 and two that are 22. My DH is not useless, quite the contrary. And to answer a previous poster, I am Irish, currently living in the US and have been here for quite a while

I know a woman who had her first baby and said she didn't want more. She clearly didn't love motherhood, she handed her baby over to her mother every Friday night and picked it up on Monday morning. Then she ended up pregnant with her second. I wished her congratulations when I saw her and she rolled her eyes and actually said she was gutted. Anyway, she now has four kids. I find it utterly perplexing. She clearly hates it...she's on benefits but there's a benefits cap now so it's not even as if she did it for the money. It's so strange to me. I can understand if you're genuinely happy having lots of kids but I see so many women with big families who look miserable and stressed. Then you find out they're expecting another...it's like lambs to the slaughter...as if they have absolutely zero dominion over their own life.

Quite.

I'm the youngest of four, and my mum only stopped under some stern medical advice.

My much older brother had health issues, my much older sister had social issues, then my other sister suffered an unexpected trauma too.

To a certain extent life is unpredictable, but unless you have loads of resources, there's every possibility large families will have bitten off more than they can chew - in a way that families of 2-3 simply haven't.

I'd much rather risk my son being a bit resentful of being an only than overwhelm our resources (mental, personal, financial) because I wanted more kids.

How do they all get on?

What is your relationship like with them?

And do you concede that you completely misinterpreted the thread you mentioned

I was responding to pp. She was asking about the OP on the thread you were talking about.

Two are very similar, including the OP on the thread. 5 young boys, though one is single and pregnant and almost identical posting styles. It's very interesting indeed.

Now they get on famously. Was there some tension between some of them as teens? Absolutely. I hesitated to mention my relationship with them because I was certain it would bring out the nastiness of Mumsnet. I loved being a mother and I think they would say they had a really nice childhood. We had plenty of one on one time and I find it sad that so many kids growing up in large families feel that they missed out on that. I am very close to all of my sons. I speak to them every day (start with the overbearing mom comments), we are all very involved in each others lives. One works and still lives at home, two are living within 5 hours of home and two live in the same City but in their own places.

I do not concede that I misunderstood the previous poster. I had many of the same thoughts many had (mom doesn't have a handle on kids, seems unorganized and frustrated, partner is a knob) but I think I may look at it from a different lens. The day the OP described could have been a one-off. A bad day. We have all had those. She was looking for some support and was upset she didn't receive it. I cannot recall a specific day like that but I'm sure I had them.

My now is Ex is one of 7 and once pondered out loud why his older sister was distant from the rest of the family. Digging deeper he happened to drop in that when his mum was popping out babies the oldest sister was left to cook, clean and maintain the running of the house
She was 10! Their mum almost died giving birth to the final sibling (the only reason she stopped having babies) and was in hospital for weeks after
Imagine being 10 and knowing your other 4+ siblings relied on you to parent them
Yoi see it again and again in those ‘famous’ mega families, the oldest girls being ‘buddied’ up with toddlers and being forced to be the 3rd parent, while having their own childhood and needs put last

Yes, expecting your kids to help out and do chores as part of a family is fine, but making the older ones step into the role of 'parent' is definitely not. I know a family where the older teen is expected to collect her 3 younger siblings from school every day and provide after-school care to save on childcare costs, which I think is outrageous.

That’s awful - and they’ll be the parents on here in ten years crying about how their adult DD has moved 500 miles away and doesn’t answer the phone 🤣

I actually have a number of friends and colleagues who ended up with twins on their last planned pregnancy.

Also blended families that come together as step-siblings.

Second/third marriages where a woman decides to have an additional child with her new partner.

There are several scenarios - some choices others not.

I asked a mum I knew several years ago if her eldest (then 14, and I knew her quite well) would babysit my child (then around 8 or 9) while I went out occasionally, between 6 and 8:30. I would have paid her and I thought it would have been a nice way for this girl to earn some easy money- my kid was happy reading and was pretty self sufficient and it would have been a couple of hours max, not even every week. Anyway, this mum said “No, because that’s when I need her so that I can go out”!! FWIW she had another child close in age to the eldest, then a couple of younger ones.

I felt she was imposing her own choices into her daughter and preventing the daughter from having a bit of independence away from the family. Even occasionally. I also have a friend whose older sister was put in that position and left home at 16 to escape it. I do think this is a dynamic that you don’t see with smaller families.

I also agree with pp that my eyebrows rise when I see people with many children, most of whom have additional needs of different degrees of severity. I would not have enough of myself to cope with 2 children if one had additional needs, let alone several. I wouldn’t condemn them at all, but I would wonder how they’re able to give each of their children a fair share of their parenting input.

Every single one of those is a choice, though.

There are women who don’t have access to contraception, of course. Sometimes because of the pressures of having children in the first place. Partners who won’t use condoms. Partners who don’t accept no. It does happen.

I think for many people it’s associated with poverty, poor choices and poor outcomes.

Except the twins, surely?

I wouldn’t be asking this poor young teen to babysit for me given all the childcare she already does, even if I intended to pay her handsomely

I commented and that post and I believe YABU.

I have no problem whatsoever with large families. I have two siblings and two step-siblings.

What I have an issue with is dysfunction- be that in a small or large family. From the OP's post yesterday, her MIL was supportive up to 3 children. She now has 5 and it sounds like life has descended into chaos.
If she were a member of my family I would provide extrinsic support, but I wouldn't be spending extended amounts of time in their home or babysitting 5 children that are vaping, disconnected, screaming, screeching or such.

Unnecessary noise / chaotic environments drive me nuts, so I avoid those as much as possible.

The expectations around what parents should be doing has changed massively in recent decades. It was enough in the past to birth them, get them to adulthood, keep them fed, and pretty much leave them to it. Now you're expected to be proactively involved in your child's life every day. Their education, health, wellbeing, social life, hobbies, experiences. I think it's far better in many ways, but with this comes the awareness that unless you are wealthy enough to not have to work or have a lot of practical family support, it's not possible to give that many children the attention they each deserve. Some parents must do an okay job of course, but you can't escape the reality that the more you have the less time you have with each. So people are just reacting against that really.

It's a choice to continue with the pregnancy.

Yeah, fair. At the time when I asked, though, I didn’t realise she was her mother’s proxy, or I might also have thought the same.

No - it's a choice to continue with a twin/triplet pregnancy.

Not an easy choice though, lots of women don’t even know they are carrying multiplies until their dating scans which could be between 12 and 14 weeks pregnant.

You can't judge someone for not having an abortion when they discover its twins. Not everyone thinks nothing of having an abortion even if they are pro choice. No wonder someone just started a thread about UK people aborting much more readily than Irish people!

I wouldn’t say I felt vitriolic about it, but I do find it very hard to understand personally. And I wonder if there are some mental health issues there that make someone feel they need to keep having babies. Anymore than 3 and it’s just logistically impossible to give a child growing up in this day and age a full life. Sports, music, clubs and classes. Parents evenings and open days. Doctors and dentist appointments etc. days out, holidays, I could go on!! How is this possible with 5?! Also, how would you ever get anything for yourself… ever?!

Anymore than 3 and it’s just logistically impossible to give a child growing up in this day and age a full life.

Wtf?! Sometimes you can structure your life accordingly. Personally I had about 7 years off with the kids, now I work term-time only from home. DH works from home and worked flexibly even before Covid. Our kids do 1 or 2 clubs each depending on their interests, we each volunteer with their sports and this is so lovely as we get extra time with them. Our household income is around £65k per year, so holidays are not fancy or expensive though we have been interrailing this summer and have been to Spain / Disneyland Paris a few times too. It takes all of our money and 95% of our time (we don't go out as a couple really ever, unless for lunch occasionally while everyone is at school!) but what the hell else would we spend our time and money on?!

We are genuinely very attentive, affirming and present parents. The days are long - I am up at 6 with the Year 2 kid and we get to bed around 10.30 after hearing the minutiae of 13 year old's day...

I suppose neither of us ever hankered for a massive all-consuming career or time to pursue a hobby in depth - we all find fulfillment in different ways and mine comes from my family. I am prepared to put my every resource into giving the kids what they need (emotionally, physically, mentally) - lots of people would not be happy assigning their resources of time, money, energy, space in the house etc in this way and I totally get that!

The life events that have been tough (a very ill child, loss of family members, redundancy) would not have been especially harder with more kids or easier with fewer. The only thing that does give me pause is the worry if DH or I both die in the next 10 years; unlikely as we are both in our 30s but it is hard to imagine who would take the children on. We just pay for masses of life insurance, stay as healthy as we can, and have robust plans with my parents who were luckily only in their 40s/ early 50s when all the kids came along.