To think most men are filthy losers

[fightbackorriseabove]

I'm going through the menopause, so have a low libido at the moment, which might explain my disgust. I don't know. I didn't use to be a prude, but I'm feeling more and more annoyed these days by men and their general behaviour.

I have a few male friends who, to varying degrees, always manage to slip in an innuendo or even an outright sexual remark. And out of politeness, or not wanting to cause a scene, I smile or roll my eyes in jest. I can only think of one occasion when I told a bloke to stop, and he REALLY took the hump. This was a married man who pursued me, but then said he was just joking and that I took myself too seriously. In fact, he got very angry.

I have lots of personal issues at the moment. Mad stuff. One of these issues lead to me googling my ex.

Well, the filth I found was disturbing. Men, thousands of them, masturbating online. I can only think they're doing it in front of each other. Becsuse there can't be many women wanting to sit and watch them. Surely? My ex was one of them.

I'm not talking about Only Fans where people pay. I'm talking about sex webcam stuff where men seem to just be filming themselves wanking. And watching each other. I don't even think it's gay. These are heterosexual men doing it for free. All ages.

Maybe I'm naïve.

But it's been a real eye opener for me.

I always knew men watched porn. But sitting there filming themselves and watching each other. It's madness.

I really do think that we, as women, spend our time worrying, working, caring, thinking, planning... and men just do the stuff thry have to do and then go back to messing with themselves or pestering women. Including their wives. And they keep having to up the limit because they can't get excited uness it's something really vile.

How many of us have felt obliged to have sex with a man, a partner, to avoid his anger, sulking, grumpiness. We've chosen sex as the lesser of two evils when we didn't want it.

It's not a human right, is it? They need to calm the fuck down.

Maybe I'm being unreasonable and grumpy, but I just think most of them ming.

Yep, this thread constitutes hate speech. I MNHQ are very remiss in not pulling it!!

You're young (19, gen z by your other posts) and haven't lived through as much of this stuff as I have.

So I'll try to explain this simply because you've ducked 95% of what I was saying.

Firstly, your assertion that Menopause isn't an excuse for bad behaviour or abusing anyone is true. However it is often used as just that and we ask others to make allowances and exceptions for us as we adjust to a new hormonal balance.

But my point was that, if we are just a bag of chemicals as my mother used to say, and if we want to say that men and women are fundamentally the same (the essence of feminism), then we must afford that men are driven by their hormones just as much as women are. In other words, why should men be damned when their hormones dictate their behaviour, and women be sympathised with as if menopause were an unfortunate illness.

As for your question Do you think only low libido women find the men on dating sites like that disgusting? then I would say you are being disingenuous. Neither you or I can answer that question without extensive polling and normalising the results. I suspect you want affirmation of your own prejudices and beliefs

However (again) my point was that the OP is a sample size of exactly one, extrapolating their personal experience to all men. As many have said, anecdotes are not data.

I would also add that your question is phrased as "women find the men on dating sites like that disgusting" making the whole thing subjective.

The fact that I find asparagus disgusting does not actually make it disgusting.

There was a time when men found women helpless, hapless, and good only for housework or breeding. Fortunately those subjective thoughts are less prevalent today.

if we want to say that men and women are fundamentally the same (the essence of feminism)

You must be joking. The whole point of feminism is that women aren't just funny-looking men (female eunuchs). It's that female and male bodies are very different and this does NOT make women 'other', faulty or less than men.

Not the right place to continue this, but your weird points about hormones could only hold water if men had female reproductive systems - and then they'd be female!

And, of course, being a fully-formed adult means being able to manage hormone-driven urges. This includes a desperate urge to shag everything in sight, an urge to stab the irritating woman in the supermarket queue and an urge to get pregnant, among other things.

Sheesh, it's like talking to someone who's never met any human beings.

CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone
Go again without chatgpt? It's lazy to use AI for posts and replies and not something women come to MN for.
Also, if TheJoyOfWriting is 19 or 20 she knows a lot more about dating men in 2025.

Edited for adding **

Hot tip: You don't have to become a radical lesbian separatist to live without perverts in your personal life.

And it's no guarantee, either ...

Woman’s hormones don’t lead them to sexually harassing woman, looking up insest and teen porn

I had truly awful relationships with men until my mid-50s!

I don't blame men, though, I blame the fact that I just thought they were all shitheads. So anything slighter better than "shithead" seemed amazing 😍

We tend to accept what we expect.

Once I dropped that belief, lo and behold I met some lovely men, and am now happily married to one.

My exes have been professional - teachers, lecturers, business execs - upstanding citizen types.
Upstanding citizen types are the worst! So many natural instincts shoved in the basement, where they exert invisible control from the shadows...

I don't know how better to explain this but you're kind of agreeing with me.

If men's hormones lead them to do those things then you can't blame men and also excuse women for the things their hormones do to them.

It sounds like that's what you want to do because you feel the things women do under hormonal influence are "not so bad" or "understandable".

If you want to blame men for things they have limited control over, then you need to be as disparaging about women. Any other approach is plain sexism.

I know from experience just how awful a hormonal woman can be - just because I wasn't looking at incest or teen porn didn't mean that I was nice. I was still screwing over people and acting like a dick.

There's (potentially) an argument to be made about men being forced into hormone treatment if their behaviour is so egregious but I don't see you making that argument.

Only that "the menz" are disgusting

Being aggressive/unpleasant to people is obvs bad, but it is not morally equivalent to taking pleasure in incest and teenager porn.

Do you believe that men who do those things, and those who top it up w real life harassment or even assault, are not in control of their actions because of their hormones?

What about men who beat up people or murder them in fits of rage? Is it excusable bc 'Oh, his hormones .

No. It is NOT. I do not like this argument at all.

Your menopause sounds very difficult, but it doesn't excuse your bad behaviour. You hadn't gone mad, you were in control of your actions and able to make choices.

If we women blame everything wrongly on hormones, as if we have no agency, we give weight to misogynists who say we are too erratic to have lead, fly planes, etc

Im chuckling to myself at the thought of men “getting on with the things they have to do and then going back to messing with each other “. I’m not sure it’s accurate but it’s definitely hilarious 😂

Honestly I don't think that's bad really...I mean, better juvenile group masturbation sessions than watching porn that harms real women, or Onlyfans.

So it sounds as if you generally agree with me, that we can't excuse men because of their hormones, and shouldn't operate a double standard by excusing women. That's good.

I differ from your evaluation that actual harm to people (however minor) is not as bad as looking at images (and presumably being turned on by them).

Where i differ is your use of moral judgement which is a wholly subjective and circular argument. (I think it bad, therefore it is bad) and varies over time.

Remember all the moral.arguments against gay men, or about single mothers etc.

Come on. Can't you see the difference between a woman raising a child alone as a result of consensual sex, or 2 men having consensual sex, and a man being turned on by underage teens or incest?

Tbf I agree that being attracted to sexually mature teens isn't paedophilia. But it's clearly wrong to keep entertaining and focusing on those thoughts.

It's not a circular argument : single mothers and gay men do not violate consent. Taking pleasure in underage teens & incest indicates that person likes to imagine scenarios where consent is at least v dubious (yes, technically incest can be consensual, but normally it's not). Plus it's very disturbing for someone to take pleasure from the thought of family members having sex with each other.

Tbf, for single mothers I do think there is a valid moral argument that it's better to raise children to have contact w a loving father. But obvs there are several reasons why that might not be possible. And I don't think premarital sex is bad by default.

I'm partly playing devil's advocate to show you the inconsistencies in your argument, but I also probably have a different view to you, therefore (by definition) probably different moral values. Ergo, my assertion that moral values are entirely subjective and therefore to some extent pointless.

I don't doubt that the morals you espouse are sincerely held, just as much as any others' morals. I merely point out that they are yours alone (whether in common with others, or not).

So, to your assertion:
Come on. Can't you see the difference between a woman raising a child alone as a result of consensual sex, or 2 men having consensual sex, and a man being turned on by underage teens or incest?

1. Single mothers - you agree that the child's life is sub-optimal compared to a life with two loving parents. So, there is evidently, actual harm there. That harm could absolutely have been avoided by her not getting pregnant, or terminating the pregnancy. So, is there a moral argument that she's done something she shouldn't have?
2. Gay men - on these pages men are considered predatory, and sex obsessed. Indeed, this very thread is about that. Many of my gay (male) friends admit to being very promiscuous and rather lazy with precautions when they were younger. These things resulted in actual harm, such as AIDS, to others Is there not a moral argument that says all these things are bad?
3. Men viewing images. Squicky for sure. But if they're not paying for the images, and they're not doing anything with real people, and the participants in the images never know they've been viewed - then where is the actual harm to anyone (except themselves). And if there is no actual harm, then the moral judgement you're intent on applying is purely a "I don't like it" reaction. It's ok to have that reaction but is it any more moral than the first two cases from, say, the perspective of a religious person?

I just want you to see that your moral certitudes are purely a personal view. They are not justified by some logical reasoning such as actual harm.
And therefore your morals are no more, and no less, valid than anybody else's.

And that's why I say it's a circular argument to assert that someone's behaviour is wrong because it is immoral, when your morality is merely a selection of what you perceive to be right or wrong.

Op i am in total agreement of your original post. Most men are not lovely people. The percentage of women and girls that have been abused, sexually abuse, sexually harassed, beaten up, cheated on, controlled, manipulated, financially controlled, imprisoned, violated, murdered, bound and gagged by men in some way is really fucking high. I doubt it is a small amount of men doing the abusing. It is wide spread.

As Sue Lloyd-Roberts said "There is a war on women"

It is very sad that you have had to justify your stance and moderate your tone throughout your thread.

Women should say enough of this shit, you want to choke me? Fuck off, you want to watch porn aka trafficked abuse? Fuck off, you want to have someone running herself ragged looking after the children, the home whilst juggling full time work whilst you sit on your lazy arse playing computer games, fuck off. You want to come at me with your fists? Fuck off and have a topping of this cricket bat.

Women. Need. To. Say. Enough. Of. This. Shit
Fuck. Off.

Most men are lovely. Some men are not.

A direct quote from Laura Bates book 'Men who hate women' pages 181 to 182

"Men hurt women. It is a fact. It is an epidemic. It is a public health catastrophe. It is normal."

"Over a third of all women worldwide have experienced physical and/or sexual violence (not including sexual harassment) at some point in their lives. One hundred and thirty-seven women across the world are killed by a member of their own family every day."

"We cannot discuss violent misogynistic extremism and male supremacy without contextualising it in a world in which violence against women is at stratospheric levels. The manosphere is both a symptom of that inequality and a furious backlash against attempts to reduce it."

"Everything we have seen so far from the rhetoric of incels, PUAs and MRAs suggests that the primary goal of these reactionary groups, like much of the alt-right and other online supremacist groups, is to regress to an idealised state of white, heteronormative male control and power. They want to see women subjugated as vassals, objects to be used primarily for men’s sexual pleasure and reproduction: pliant, obedient and servile. The end – achieving this extreme, patriarchal utopia – is considered infinitely more important than the means, which may include everything from trickery to harassment to assault to mass violence."

If it doesn't make 'you' angry, then 'you' have a problem with seeing the truth.

Of course it makes me angry. I can't get the stabbing of Iryna Zarutska out of my head. I also realise bad things are happening to women every day.

I don't know what you have been through but have you never had any kind men in your life? My first boyfriend was awful and assaulted me many times. I'm now married to a good man.

@ThatWasJustANoise 🤗

Yes I have good men in my life, my son, husband, father, uncles, late grandfather, my daughters partner. These men are truly lovely, however I and many many women and girls I know have had awful things done to them from men and boys. I would say that most of my female friends from all walks of life have all been the subject of abuse in one form or another by men.

I'm a single mother. Things are tight financially sometimes. But, you know what? There's never any agro. Never. We're just happy. We just love each other. And I refuse to believe she'll be any worse off for it. Full-on, up-for-each-other-all-the-time-love. X

That was a very angry post from someone who has good men in their life.

When people profess to have good men in their lives, I always think that you haven’t seen their Internet search history.

That made me laugh out loud!🤣

She will definitely be worse off for it and all the research backs that up. Better not to have a bellend in your life but there are good men out there and they significantly enrich life.