Page 23 | To think most men are filthy losers

fightbackorriseabove · 2025-09-07T17:05:00+00:00

I'm going through the menopause, so have a low libido at the moment, which might explain my disgust. I don't know. I didn't use to be a prude, but I'm feeling more and more annoyed these days by men and their general behaviour. I have a few male friends who, to varying degrees, always manage to slip in an innuendo or even an outright sexual remark. And out of politeness, or not wanting to cause a scene, I smile or roll my eyes in jest. I can only think of one occasion when I told a bloke to stop, and he REALLY took the hump. This was a married man who pursued me, but then said he was just joking and that I took myself too seriously. In fact, he got very angry. I have lots of personal issues at the moment. Mad stuff. One of these issues lead to me googling my ex. Well, the filth I found was disturbing. Men, thousands of them, masturbating online. I can only think they're doing it in front of each other. Becsuse there can't be many women wanting to sit and watch them. Surely? My ex was one of them. I'm not talking about Only Fans where people pay. I'm talking about sex webcam stuff where men seem to just be filming themselves wanking. And watching each other. I don't even think it's gay. These are heterosexual men doing it for free. All ages. Maybe I'm naïve. But it's been a real eye opener for me. I always knew men watched porn. But sitting there filming themselves and watching each other. It's madness. I really do think that we, as women, spend our time worrying, working, caring, thinking, planning... and men just do the stuff thry have to do and then go back to messing with themselves or pestering women. Including their wives. And they keep having to up the limit because they can't get excited uness it's something really vile. How many of us have felt obliged to have sex with a man, a partner, to avoid his anger, sulking, grumpiness. We've chosen sex as the lesser of two evils when we didn't want it. It's not a human right, is it? They need to calm the fuck down. Maybe I'm being unreasonable and grumpy, but I just think most of them ming.

ThatWasJustANoise · 08/09/2025 17:45

GarlicPint · 08/09/2025 17:39

Easy 😂 All you have to do is say "I think men are/do ..." followed by anything less than uncritically admiring, and you will be swamped by frothing & fuming replies:

Pretending you said "all men"
Diagnosing various deep character flaws in you
Trying (and failing) to turn it back on "all women"
Refuting any evidence that you may have a point
Denying that men make obnoxious generalisations about women
Accusing you of bigotry 🙄

And they wonder why we say men have fragile egos!

More rules of misogyny:

Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
Women’s ability to recognize male behaviour patterns is misandry.

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Pretending you said "all men

It's not MOST men.

There are some awful, dangerous men out there but why exaggerate?

A debate on SOME men would be more truthful.

Rallentanda · 08/09/2025 17:49

It is actually really enraging, this 'not all men' thing, or 'not even most men'.

The thread is full of real life experiences of men who appeared to be lovely family men from the outside and were terrible within the relationship or as parents/grandparents. My heart goes out to you all, honestly.

I know a man who is a model husband and father. He has terrorised various employees repeatedly to the extent that he's lost jobs. He solicits his colleagues for same-sex orgies. That man's wife thinks he's a bit edgy with his humour and that's why people don't like him!

You have got to be aware that while there are men who never do things like this, and who are lovely and loving, NOBODY can tell which they are!

SerafinasGoose · 08/09/2025 17:52

Someoneshouldatoldme · 08/09/2025 16:01

Women here talk about how they dont want men to: harrass them, touch them without consent, make sexist comments, be violent, being seen as less than, being controlled, attacked and objectified.
Men who hate women talk about the ways women should behave in order to service men and their needs.
Hardly the same thing. The jailed is allowed to hate the jailer. Although most of us don't hate men. We just hope they were decent humans with integrity. Who treated us with kindness and respect.

I agree. As the mother of a son it really concerns me. Both he and his father have done our damndest to raise him as a considerate member of society who doesn't view women as service humans or despise them simply for speaking or taking up space. We've tried to lead by that example and we don't hold with 'toxic masculinity' stereotypes or the 'boys will be boys' mentality.

But there's a caveat. Like most mothers I think my son is lovely. He's a kind, intelligent, empathetic child. My fear is that don't raise our kids in a vacuum. Given the way men are raised and socially conditioned, the influences he might be subjected to outside the home do worry me.

Disclaiming responsibility, thinking our own can do no wrong and refusing to see what's beyond the end of our noses will do nothing at all to help the situation. Parents all have a responsibility to raise our boys to be better men - it starts in childhood.

And no, it's not all men. But enough of them are like that to make life for women a real problem on a more-or-less daily basis. It is not being 'bigoted' to point out that fact.

TempestTost · 08/09/2025 17:53

Rallentanda · 08/09/2025 17:49

It is actually really enraging, this 'not all men' thing, or 'not even most men'.

The thread is full of real life experiences of men who appeared to be lovely family men from the outside and were terrible within the relationship or as parents/grandparents. My heart goes out to you all, honestly.

I know a man who is a model husband and father. He has terrorised various employees repeatedly to the extent that he's lost jobs. He solicits his colleagues for same-sex orgies. That man's wife thinks he's a bit edgy with his humour and that's why people don't like him!

You have got to be aware that while there are men who never do things like this, and who are lovely and loving, NOBODY can tell which they are!

It's as enraging as assholes who go on about how all women are slags and out to get men for all they can.

Those guys have lots of examples too.

I'm not sure why this thread is allowed, it wouldn't be about any other group.

TheGodsOfTheCopybookHeadings · 08/09/2025 17:54

ThatWasJustANoise · 08/09/2025 17:45

Pretending you said "all men

It's not MOST men.

There are some awful, dangerous men out there but why exaggerate?

A debate on SOME men would be more truthful.

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Firstly, the fact that a great deal of men are horrible, vile people - predatory, violent, rapists, murderers and utter scum not even worthy of being called animals - isn't something that needs debating. It's fact.

Secondly, OP is actually allowed her opinion, and is allowed to voice it. Her experience has taught her that most men are filthy losers. She isn't inciting anything, calling for violence or otherwise, she's simply stating her opinion. Yes it's an uncomfortable one and probably one that many women thankfully can't relate to. But many women can.

Plantlady10 · 08/09/2025 17:57

I think there are two problems:

some boys and men do terrible things and don't respect women, which is not right

Boys and men are told they are bad and wrong for even existing, which is not right

Both of these things can be true at the same time

Rallentanda · 08/09/2025 17:58

TempestTost · 08/09/2025 17:53

It's as enraging as assholes who go on about how all women are slags and out to get men for all they can.

Those guys have lots of examples too.

I'm not sure why this thread is allowed, it wouldn't be about any other group.

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I'm really happy that it's allowed. Men have places all over the internet where they can say what they like about women - and they do.

ThatWasJustANoise · 08/09/2025 18:03

TheGodsOfTheCopybookHeadings · 08/09/2025 17:54

Firstly, the fact that a great deal of men are horrible, vile people - predatory, violent, rapists, murderers and utter scum not even worthy of being called animals - isn't something that needs debating. It's fact.

Secondly, OP is actually allowed her opinion, and is allowed to voice it. Her experience has taught her that most men are filthy losers. She isn't inciting anything, calling for violence or otherwise, she's simply stating her opinion. Yes it's an uncomfortable one and probably one that many women thankfully can't relate to. But many women can.

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No, I can't relate. I am someone who's first boyfriend was one of these awful men. I hate him even 30 years on. I have lots of men in my life. Family. Friends and colleagues. Many of them are good people and definitely not losers.

Perhaps I'm lucky that I've never done OLD and at my age in my 50's I wouldn't bother.

OutsideLookingOut · 08/09/2025 18:11

Some, many or most, how do you even know?

How many men are secretly viewing child SA?
How many men were willing to rape Gisele Pelicot?
How many men were willing to see an advert to rape Gisele Pelicot and said nothing?
Which men are in that group chat of 77K men who share how to rape their wives, daughters etc etc etc
Afghanistan (enough said?)

How can we be haranguing women for using most, many or some when the above and much worse is happening even as we speak?

GarlicPint · 08/09/2025 18:15

I'm not sure why this thread is allowed, it wouldn't be about any other group.

😂😂

Have you actually met any human beings? Or even read any other threads on MN?
Off the top of my head:
Benefit claimants
Rich people
"Immigrants" and related euphemisms
Anyone with an opinion about vaccinations
Women who sleep with married men
Old people / Boomers
Gen Z/Alpha
... and so many more ...

Those groups aren't being accused of the same kind of depravity outlined in this thread, which is male-specific and not the main complaint with other groups, but they're handed quite a lot more vitriol. While every complaint may have a kernel of truth worth examining, few (if any) come with the same weight of evidence and relevant personal experiences as this one.

As ever on Mumsnet: If you expected approximately 8 million UK women to demonstrate acquiescence, malleability, and to #BeKind no matter what - you're on the wrong forum. Go and read a tradwives board or a manosphere hub or something.

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:15

CanSeeClearlyNowTheRainHasGone · 08/09/2025 06:12

Some women (with low libido, on online dating sites looking for a man), find men (on dating sites) to be disgusting.

That's a small base and a particularly nasty social media application to extrapolate from.

I do find it curious that women more recently expect special treatment or dispensation for the hormone related times of their lives, but are reluctant to accept that men are driven by hormones as well.

The (possibly reasonable) argument that we should be able to override our hormones because we're not animals is legitimate, but not when applied to only one group of people.

Personally I find this kind of thread as depressing and bigoted as those of the 1960/70's about Blacks and Asians.

I've read enough on MN to see the disconnect in thinking about sex in marriage.

Strand A is husbands feeling they have a right to sex (they don't) and women quite content not to have sex with their husband
Strand B is husbands that have cheated and how vile they are.

And now I see this OP upset at men masturbating (not something I want to watch btw).

Perhaps men just want to be wanted sexually. Is that so bad?

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Menopause isn't an excuse for bad behaviour or abusing anyone.

Do you think only low libido women find the men on dating sites like that disgusting?

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:25

TheOtherAgentJohnson · 08/09/2025 11:03

Exactly.

And men only fight wars because other men start them.

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A lot of male soldiers are very brave and we should respect that. Obvs that doesn't apply to ones who commit war crimes. But it's v wrong to dismiss them like that. Female soldiers are brave too, ofc.

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:26

LovelyLuluu · 08/09/2025 10:01

A friend's husband regularly sends memes to me about "pussies". This is because I like cats. He's made sure his wife knows about it. So, it's just "banter". I don't want to fall out with my friend.

So here is an example. He regularly sends you something. You don't like it but you suck it up.

And again, you're making an excuse about you don't want to fall out with your friend.

You're not setting boundaries.

Tbf Are You Being Served had loads of jokes about Mrs Slocombe's pussy. And that was back in the 70s supposed to be a family show!

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Look on the Reddit porn subs. Lots of members, really violent & hateful stuff, a lot of it. MOST men do not think that way. But when you first come across it's a shock that it's more than one wants to think. See also what happened to Gisele Pelicot.

I suspect OP has had a similar realisation from the dating apps. It's horrible but OP you must remember this is NOT most men, though it IS far too many.

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:34

GingerPower · 08/09/2025 09:53

This is my sentiment although I didn't want to say it.

I've always been fairly direct. It could be a product of the 'black and white' thinking associated with my ADHD/Dypraxia or it could just be how I am.

Either way, I rarely have issues with men. With women, however, I tend to think twice nowadays about giving an opposing opinion at work unless it's really necessary or I'm going to look bad if things go wrong. So many tend to get the hump and hold petty grudges. I honestly find working in the construction sector way less stressful than I did working in the legal sector. There was a thread about this a while back where loads of posters were agreeing that their female bosses in the legal sector were less supportive than the men and often had an attitude of "well, I made the sacrifices so you should too".

Female judges are also less lenient on women and the sentencing disparity favouring women starts to dissolve when the judges aren't male.

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I think it's good though that women judges are less lenient if men are TOO lenient.

Seems to contradict the MRA argument that women have more bias in favour of their own gender than men do

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:35

Gerardormikey · 08/09/2025 09:56

It breaks my heart. My eldest is 23. You can only do so much. I’ve over heard him and his friends talking and it’s mostly vile.

To me, his sisters, his family, he’s wonderful. But yeah, as my previous post, it’s not always on show.

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Have you called him out? He may be a grown up but you are his mother still.

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:37

I agree w pps that men watching each other wanking seems harmless. I get it was a horrible shock, OP, but they weren't harming women, just doing stuff to themselves. It seems silly more than dangerous or scary.

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:40

blackpooolrock · 08/09/2025 09:17

This is something me and a few friends have talked about quite a lot recently. We cam to the conclusion a lot of men would shag a barbers floor if they could.

I think men and woman are very different in the way they feel about and see sex. I think men see sex as quite transactional whereas woman are more interested in feelings and the emotional side of it.

I fell across some article about woman using testosterone i then went and done some more reading about it because it made me wonder - some woman are using it by rubbing it on their genitals and most of them report their sex drives goes through the roof at the time of using it. I do think men who have normal or higher testosterone levels must feel like this all the time which drives their sex drive which is why i think a lot of them would shag a barbers floor.

There is no need for crudeness or innuendo - i think some of these men are just trying to be funny in a way men joke.

As for the ones who wank together or video themselves etc. that's just vile... they need their cock cut off for that.

Why is them wanking together vile? Not hurting women, just doing stuff to themselves.

What if women masturbated together? Rare, but would that be evil too?

As I said upthread, this is why I'm confused by the argument that men only release oxytocin in sex so need it to feel loved. If that's true, why do they seem to attach little emotion to sex so much of the time, ONS, porn etc which women tend not to do?

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:43

DryAndBalmy · 08/09/2025 08:31

Just thinking out loud - I wonder if quite so very many men have always been this awful. I guess religion, societal norms and close knit communities with the pressure to be ‘decent’ and ‘respectable’ previously provided more guard rails.

Porn and accessing/ sharing God knows what sort of revolting depravity online has the be a major factor.

I’ve never been involved with dating apps (married for a very long time) but do they slightly commodify women/ people?

I’ve got a friend who’s my age (early 60s) going through the app experience and it sounds like a thoroughly miserable rollercoaster - each one weirder than the last. I truly couldn’t be bothered. If I found myself single I’d just stay single and throw myself into embracing female friendships, helping my kids, volunteering etc.

Slightly? 1000x

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:50

BurnTheWholeThingDown · 08/09/2025 08:57

My dad was the nicest kindest man I knew. Lovely bloke. Always polite and respectful. 300 people came to his funeral and everyone said the most wonderful things about him and his many years as a youth leader.

We found out a few months ago that he was a paedophile who abused young girls. All of our daughters (his grandchildren) and daughters of our cousins and family friends. All of the girls thought it was just them and he made it clear no one would believe them. The dominos only started to fall after he died.

We are all broken by this, and my faith in men is completely gone now (was already shaky and my dad was one of only a handful of men I thought were the good ones).

My husband is truly wonderful in a million ways, but he is also obsessed with sex. He's never horrible about it but it matters to him in a way that I don’t always understand. I think men are completely driven by their urges and most women just don’t really grasp what that means for many of them.

That's truly terrible, I'm so sorry 🫂

On your husband : you say he's never nasty about sex...I don't think having a high libido is automatically bad as long as no-one's being pressured or harmed...

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:52

Unpaidviewer · 08/09/2025 09:06

I screenshotted it as evidence. There's an upcoming court case for harassment. Or at least, I hope there will be. On this sex site, he wrote how he was looking for fat, blonde, mature women. That's what I am. So, I've been gathering evidence. When I told my lawyer about it, she ignored it. So, there's a good chance it's of no use at all. I have plenty of other stuff, though. Anyway, I don't want to get into all that. The man is awful on every level.

Well of course its no use, you sound completely deranged. Stop stalking your ex and saving images of his penis. He may be awful but have you considered that you are too?

I know good and bad people of both genders. To say most men are disgusting and awful is just misandry.

The ex is obvs evil ad he abused OP, but being on sex site, while seedy, is not automatically abuse. You should not use that as evidence, OP. It will backfire. Have a careful think before throwing everything at the wall.

TheOtherAgentJohnson · 08/09/2025 18:58

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:25

A lot of male soldiers are very brave and we should respect that. Obvs that doesn't apply to ones who commit war crimes. But it's v wrong to dismiss them like that. Female soldiers are brave too, ofc.

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However brave people are in battle isn't really the point. Women and children aren't the ones starting wars, so the idea that we need men to protect us is backwards - they're only protecting us from other bloody men. They could all just wind their necks in instead.

OutsideLookingOut · 08/09/2025 18:58

OutsideLookingOut · 08/09/2025 18:11

Some, many or most, how do you even know?

How many men are secretly viewing child SA?
How many men were willing to rape Gisele Pelicot?
How many men were willing to see an advert to rape Gisele Pelicot and said nothing?
Which men are in that group chat of 77K men who share how to rape their wives, daughters etc etc etc
Afghanistan (enough said?)

How can we be haranguing women for using most, many or some when the above and much worse is happening even as we speak?

To add to this, it is a serious question. How can we know what % of men are doing these despicable things considering many will never be caught/punished?

Just look at rape convictions, it is hard to prove. No one is searching every computer for pictures and videos of child SA, so you can marry and live with a rapist or paedo and never really know.

TheJoyOfWriting · 08/09/2025 18:59

GingerPower · 08/09/2025 09:27

Not every single case. I mean every single year it was the mother that was most likely to abuse. Obviously it's probs because the mother is most likely to be the primary carer and suffer from the resulting mental health issues - PND, general stress etc.

But it does highlight a commonly observed factor where people always look for a reason if a woman commits a crime. If it's a man it's because he's evil, if it's a woman she must've been suffering poor mental health etc.

In reality, I don't think the sexes are all that different. Outside of comparatively rare instances of serious criminality I don't find women to be any nicer than men in general. They're just different. Men are much more likely to sexually harass or make lewd comments but every time I've started a new job or attended a new exercise class and been made to feel unwelcome by a 'clique' sort of dynamic it's always women. There's loads of threads about it on here.

It seems to be well documented in studies too. For instance, the vast majority of studies on the topic have shown that women would rather have a male boss than be managed by another woman, and they feel even more strongly about it than men. Also, men collaborate better than women. The study I saw on here concluded that a man and a woman will usually collaborate better than two women will. Also that women are less inclined to help another woman the more senior she is to them at work.

So I just don't believe the sisterhood stuff. A small proportion of men are violent and they mainly direct it at other men, which is why it doesn't really seem to be misogynistic in nature for the most part. But women aren't angels. There's a lot of double standards at play.

But I can totally see why somebody that's experienced DV would be wary of men. It makes sense, just like how a lot of the people complaining about immigration are those that live in areas with high numbers of asylum seekers. Most women don't like sexism in any form. And the biggest metastudy of DV to date found that both sexes perpetrator DV for similar reasons. Also that 70% of 'one sided' DV is perpetrated by women, but the majority is bi-directional with men causing the most injury.

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So women perpetrate DV at equal rates to men? Do you have some studies?

Finding it hard to square that with the biological inclinations that make men more likely to be violent.

OutsideLookingOut · 08/09/2025 19:01

TheOtherAgentJohnson · 08/09/2025 18:58

However brave people are in battle isn't really the point. Women and children aren't the ones starting wars, so the idea that we need men to protect us is backwards - they're only protecting us from other bloody men. They could all just wind their necks in instead.

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It is like that quote "All men benefit from the actions of violent men. The existence of violent men grants ‘good’ men awards for basic decency or poor behaviour; so long as it isn’t violence."