To think that, under the threat of "Let the war begin", there should be specific laws against male's entering female private spaces (and vice versa)

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

After being told they will not be allowed to enter female toilets, changing rooms, clubs and other private sexed spaces, men have vowed to "fight" or be arrested “multiple times”

https://archive.ph/tdkd0

"Let the war begin. Fingers crossed. You need to fight for all of us globally. It’s a war."

I think it is reasonable to have a specific crime for this sort of violation of rights and privacy, rather than Outraging public decency, Voyeurism, Exposure/ indecent exposure.

It seems clear that without firm dealing with, men are going to violate these spaces again and again.

Then I remember metaphysical woowoo champions.

Yes, that encapsulates the whole thought!

Our existence as women doesn’t rely on anyone else validating this fact.

The existence of a man ‘as a woman’ is totally reliant on everyone around him pretending they think he’s a woman. Hence Tandora claiming that denying such a man entry to women’s facilities rather than a unisex space causes him ‘profound harm’ (interestingly no similar claim has ever been made about the effects on ‘transmen’ that use the ladies, they are just used as a ‘gotcha’ against women). ‘Trans’ is totally unsustainable as it relies on others.

So come on then, Tandora, what's the difference between being trans-gender, trans-age and trans-racial?

Why is trans-age dismissed by you when trans-gender isn't?

And what about Felix Fern?

And the male trans person who videoed him self in that shopping centre up north. There seems to be quite a few people who understand themselves as children as much as they understand themselves as the opposite sex.

It seems to be more that the experts are at a ‘loss’ as to explain why society is expected to validate transgender yet not transage.

All we are getting at the moment is deflection and denial .

I must admit that I am looking forward to discovering how a male person’s categorisation using a self applied label that has now been acknowledged by Tandora to be nothing like a female lived experience, but based on their ‘understanding’ of themselves using their personal criteria is demanded to be treated as being the same category as a female with an objectively assessable body that fits the female category.

Remember, there is no biological or neurological marker that has been discovered to be common amongst all people with a transgender identity. And this ‘understanding’ relies on philosophical theory. It is a philosophical belief about one’s identity.

The crux of all this discussion has boiled down to, acknowledgment that a male persons ‘understanding’ that they are female is only real in their personal perception. Yet, society has been demanded to treat this personal perception as if it is materially real.

If a female person doesn’t get their categorisation validated by society, she doesn’t cease to be a female person. She is materially real and will remain female despite anyone denying she is.

That society has affirmed these demands that some male person’s personal and unique ‘understanding’ is equal to a female persons materially real sex class status is eye opening.

A great summary @Helleofabore

I, like you, wait with bated breath and a genuine open mind. Do hope Tandora has been able to get onto their big keyboard.

Edit double post

I have always said that if I read something robustly proven and studies that are repeatable numerous times to get the same result, I will include that knowledge and adapt my thinking.

I admire your patience, and work in pulling together your thoughts. I look forward to seeing fruitful discussions.

"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components"

Its so weird that you find this a funny statement when its simply biological reality.
🤷🏼‍♀️

No it’s not a “perception” based on “personal criteria”. There is no “criteria”.

It is a material, bio-psychological state of being/cognitive experience , which is visceral, pervasive, outside of a person’s control and forms an essential/ core part of a person’s humanity. It is exceptionally painful, disorienting and psychologically torturous to the person to force them to repress/ deny or live as if they were otherwise.

Being trans is not trivial no matter how much you seek to belittle and dismiss.

@SingleSexSpacesInSchools sorry I haven’t replied to you yet will try to do so today.

Me too!

But most people have no sense of a gender, and some of us think having one seems like a mental disorder.

Have you read this?

x.com/Psychgirl211/status/1808825717204922755

And yet, no other material, bio-psychological state of being/cognitive experience , which is visceral, pervasive, outside of a person’s control and forms an essential/ core part of a person’s humanity exists that takes priority over sex based protections.

Tell us again, which other group has their demands prioritised over female single sex protections when they are not materially and objectively female?

Most people are not trans- but almost everyone has a sense of gender- is a basic component of cognitive development and part of the ASQ developmental criteria.

Even if it were true - and it’s not clear what it means - it doesn’t change the fact that biological sex as expressed in humans is binary.

It’s funny that you think it’s a statement worth making.

It's funny because it's a pseudo intellectual word salad that you used to try and bamboozle people into thinking you are much better educated than they are, and that you know more than they do about this subject.

Biological sex is simple, it is binary. People are either of the female, or male sex. There is no third sex.

You had two threads set up just for you to talk to us about how biological sex is oh so very complicated, and to show us any evidence that would back you up, but you refused to give links to anything specific and kept telling people your evidence was out there if they cared to look for it themselves, but again refused to provide much direction other than one website link IIRC.

As per usual people were supposed to just take your word for it, and as per usual no one was having it.

Why is it not clear what it means?

Sex is not a single variable- there are multiple variables / components that make up sex (chromosomes, gonads, hormones, genitals etc), and there can be various minority combinations of these. These combinations are produced through a process of development- of which there are two major pathways, but also a range of minority trajectories.

That’s about having an awareness of which sex one is. Unfortunately the conflation of sex and gender is, as usual, confusing.

And still meaningless in the context of the sex binary.

No, we really don't. It's a question that used to get asked a lot when discussion around gender started, and those of us with no sense of a gender were relieved to find we were the ordinary ones.

'Gender' is a theoretical concept, gender norms and expressions are culturally specific, and, in sane societies, entirely optional.

But we all have sexed bodies that shape our lives and our experiences.

It’s not a pseudo intellectual word salad. It’s basic language with a perfectly clear / basic meaning.

biological sex is simple

it really really isn’t.

Nothing about human biology is simple. Human bodies are extraordinarily complex.

“Having awareness of which sex one is*

this is precisely what gender is.

But that’s not what you said earlier in this thread. You described it as an ‘understanding’ of oneself as the opposite sex.

Is this an official definition now? What is a ‘bio psychological state’ if it is not some form of self perception and why haven’t we heard this definition or description before? If there’s a ‘bio’ (biological) element, why can’t we test for it?

How can you have an objective definition without criteria to prove or demonstrate it? Are you saying that all trans people fit this definition? How do you know that Isla Bryson, Stefohknee and Jan Morris all had the same feelings?

Are you now saying that it’s ’psychologically tortuous’ to require all men to use unisex or male spaces? Why did Fionne Orlander not experience such debilitating‘psychological torture’? Are you denying his trans identity?

Are you able to answer Arabella’s question about Stefohknee?

No one is saying that sex is simple or that bodies are other than complicated.

They are saying that none of this changes the fact that humans come in two sexes, male and female. There is nothing meaningfully in between, and one cannot become the other. This is material reality.