To think that, under the threat of "Let the war begin", there should be specific laws against male's entering female private spaces (and vice versa)

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

After being told they will not be allowed to enter female toilets, changing rooms, clubs and other private sexed spaces, men have vowed to "fight" or be arrested “multiple times”

https://archive.ph/tdkd0

"Let the war begin. Fingers crossed. You need to fight for all of us globally. It’s a war."

I think it is reasonable to have a specific crime for this sort of violation of rights and privacy, rather than Outraging public decency, Voyeurism, Exposure/ indecent exposure.

It seems clear that without firm dealing with, men are going to violate these spaces again and again.

‘We cannot have our arguments settled by who has suffered the most’

Oh of course. Like Lia Thomas, the hulking male swimmer who forced women (on pain of being thrown off the team) to change with him & compete against him. He won that argument because he was a sad ‘transwoman’ who was really suffering by being made to be a mediocre male swimmer.

And Isla Bryson & all the other creepy male rapists who would really suffer if their female victims didn’t call him she or her.

Or the women in rape crisis centres thrown out if they pointed out the bloke in a dress in their female single sex support group. His suffering was far greater, so the woman had to leave.

And poor Dr Beth Theodore Upton. He had the choice of male or mixed sex locker rooms. But his suffering was so great he had to use the female nurses locker room, & refused to leave when asked, even when a woman was trying to change her period soiled scrubs.

So yes, let’s never let an argument be swayed by top trumps suffering.

I believe the argument is that any man's suffering trumps any women's suffering, at all times. Therefore, it doesn't matter if women have suffered. Because the men have the right to do as they please.

Fashionable?

I hope your friend finds the solace she needs, but bringing her into an argument with strangers on the internet about trans people… what are you trying to achieve there? Do you not think I’m aware that horrible things happen to women? Every woman is aware. So, why did you do it. What was it for

I'm trying to get you to see why some women need single sex spaces and why you wanting to invite men 'into the women club' is hugely problematic for them.

Beciase you don't seem to be able to join those dots yourself.

It's not a game ffs!

If you had said you wouldn't have thought twice about it, you would either have been lying or completely brainless, but the fact that you need to ask further questions is really all we need to know that you know women and girls are at risk because trans identified males are and always will be men.

I dunno if you want to have this conversation, but it is incredibly unpleasant engaging with you all. I have to really put on my argument head, but it’s important to me so I do it occasionally, admittedly much less successfully than I’d like. If anyone ever wants to have an actual chat where nobody mocks anyone, we’re going to have to have some very clear boundaries about language agreed on both sides, I am here to have it and I swear I will engage with an open mind.

Okay let's go ...

Why don't you think women should have the right to their own single sex spaces?

Why do think inviting men 'into the women club' is more important?

Genuine question

Maybe we should have asked Tandora about the man dressing as a woman in the female toilets, when a young girl was there.

At least she’d have just banged on about his self perceived essence of womanhood, as opposed to offering a thinly disguised two fingers to female safety, dignity & privacy.

At least good ol’ Tandy is just a pretend expert in gender something or another, not a, well, who knows what?

Say what you like about Tandora, I don't think they would ever suggest that telling the stories of women who've been raped is 'weaponising trauma'.

Show me someone who has zero understanding of human rights, why we have them and how they are designed to both accurately identify and protect the most vulnerable in our society whilst trying to balance the needs (not wants and desires) of others.

Their entire point is to stop harm of those who would otherwise suffer the most.

I don't believe you.

Well if all that comes out of this is that you’re happy to have Tandora again, I guess that’s something

Not sure page 39 is the time

but actually I kind of covered it in that long post - sex and gender are messed up enough, I don’t see it as a material issue

Yes we all know that you 'don't care', but what would give you the right to take the call on behalf of all women?

And I thought you wanted to debate? We can always start another thread.

‘I’m not being creepy…’

Um, nah, I’m not so sure about that.

‘It is incredibly unpleasant engaging with you all…’ says the person who intends to help men break the law to enter female spaces, even when reminded that women who’ve been sexually assaulted might be a teeny bit upset about this. And then accuses the person reminding them of this, a real fear, not the confected fear of men using the toilets meant for men, of using this to gain the upper hand in an argument.

nothing. I don’t have that right. I’m trying to understand what you’re asking, cos I feel like it’s not that

So you are saying you're happy to give away consent for all women, you don't care about the issues, you don't want to have to think too hard about it all, you want to be the tone police, you don't want a race to the bottom over who suffers most so you can ignore the actual harms done to women and girls by men even though it is directly related to why we have single sex spaces for example, but as @NeverOneBiscuit has pointed out so well you also ignore that this has been one of the basic foundations of the gender ideological movement for trans identifying male's demands on society - they are the most vulnerable, oppressed and at risk remember?

With all this in mind, on top of your horrible comment about the fact that many women and girls need single sex spaces because of sexual violence is being used as "fight currency", I highly doubt you are here with an open mind to genuinely discuss the issues.

You are here to support men to the detriment of women and girls. At least be honest about it.

Single sex spaces are a key way of safeguarding women's security and dignity. We keep all men out for this reason.

On what grounds would we exempt one particular group of men?

Genuinely what’s with the ‘we’. I can start a thread, or you can. We can’t do it together.

I don’t particularly want to debate - I’m happy to talk about it though.

Well I'm not so sure about that personally.

The best I can say for Tandora over Inchworms is that at least Tandora is amusing with it. Unintentionally, but still.

That’s where we’re going to struggle is calling them men. But it can be men if you like. Back to basics, what would fundamentally be wrong with everything just being mixed sex

What else do you think I'm asking?

And what happened to your desire to invite men 'into the women club'? Are you giving up on that?

They are men. Why do you want me to use obfuscatory language?

Including prisons?