Child Benefit Rival Claim Ex Partner Earning Loads!!!!! part 2

[ProlongedAffair]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5294980-child-benefit-rival-claim-ex-partner-earning-loads?reply=144269354

I can’t write on the previous thread anymore, so I’ve created this one for people interested in the outcome of the CMS case. I’m committed to telling people what the outcome is regardless of whether it goes my way or not.

But your ex contacted them and said ‘I don’t believe this is true’ and that he felt you were not primary carer

So in a fair process, you then had the chance to submit all your evidence about the child benefit and you lost. Therefore he can then sue you, CMS are not suing you? Your ex is. CMS have 2 parties in dispute so the court will have to decide who gets what.

And yet it was mums net posts who were actually right. 😂

Yes he did contact them and they refused him until he then claimed the child benefit. It’s their fault again that they let it go on for so many months leading me to believe I was entitled to this money. Why should their cock up mean I have to pay??

Because you benefitted from the money that you should never have received in the first place. You have been overpaid no matter whose ‘fault’ it was.
CMS and child benefit will see this as overpaying you for what you needed for the children, therefore you've either overspent (silly you) or saved it (great, you can pay it back) as of course you’d only spend sensibly?

I was overpaid on my UC - they admitted their mistake, oh well frankly. I now receive reduced payments monthly so I can pay them back from the OVERPAYMENT I received for months.

If HMRC don’t take enough tax from you, they will write to you so you pay it back.
If you’re overpaid at work, you have to pay it back over a sensible amount of time.
If £10,000 is put in your bank account by mistake from your own bank, they will take this back from you.

JFC.

I can see why you thought that.

But it isnt CMSs fault because they couldnt predict your exs response. And CMS aren't the ones with his money. You are.

You said I get child benefit. They said you've advised you are primary carer, the child benefit position supports that. You WERE entitled to money. And as long as he didnt dispute it or pursue child benefit it was accurate. We all warned you he might, and CMS wouldnt try and predict his response or offer advice on what might happen if things change.

BUT he did appeal, and they rightly said child benefit is with the mother so we believe her. But then he did submit a rival claim, and he did prove he was 50:50. If his rival claim was denied you would still get the CMS.

You cant blame CMS who didnt know your circs, and advised you based on the info they had. They couldnt have known whether hed appeal or not or how successful he would be in a rival child benefit claim. Especially as, generally speaking the odds are stacked against a father making a rival claim against the mother. But he was successful.

Now those circs have changed. And unfortunately even if thats not your fault its YOUR responsibility. You've had the benefit of the money, that you aren't entitled to because of his backdated child benefit award.

If your job over pays you, and its not your fault - you are responsible for paying it back. If your employer undertaxes you, and its not your fault - you are responsible for paying it back. If the bank accidently deposits someone else's money jn your account, and it's not your fault - youre still responsible for paying it back. Your boss, your job, your bank - they dont cover it for you. You repay it becuase you weren't entitled to it.

Hes proved you weren't entitled to the money, you took it so you owe it back. How is it fair that he doesnt get money that was taken from him, how is it fair that the taxpayer pays for money you took from him you aren't entitled to. Unfortunately the person responsible for starting the dispute, for spending the money when there was a dispute is you. So youre responsible for correcting the position. Not CMS, they dont have his money. You do.

And you can say its not fair over and over but CMS wont pay it for you. Tbh I would think it was unfair on taxpayers who fund CMS if they did pay in these kinda dispute cases.
And if you dont want to believe us that's understandable, we are internet strangers but then please take some of the many sensible suggestions of legal advice. Try citizens advice bureau even.

I wonder why your ex will no longer engage with you on this? Perhaps he’s as fed up as Mumsnet is!?
‘You cant reason with stupid’ springs to mind.

This seems to have gone from ExPs fault to CMSs fault. Genuinely how much do you think is your fault?

And considering the series of events. The circs when the CMS started, how the situation changed.. how exactly is it you think CMS "cocked up?"

They haven’t misled you. You misled them into thinking you were primary carer.

You misled CMS. This led directly to their error. Once they received correct information, they corrected the error. I can't see how this is their fault.

As a general rule im always saying please dont take legal advice from the Internet. However what you dont appear to have done... at any point... is gone "hmm there's a lot of people on MN saying im wrong, maybe I should get legal advice instead of just thinking im right".

And a vast number of people, myself included, told you to set aside the cms payments because there was a good chance you may be required to pay it back. That was months ago. If you haven't set it aside that's entirely on you.

This whole situation is entirely on you. Lets not forget your original thread about your ex's salary said you thought you should get more money to top up your savings or go on better holidays. This was NEVER about your kids and that is the really sad part of this.

You haven't been misled by CMS. You mislead them by not making clear it was a strictly 50/50 agreement and you only claimed the CB for both children because your ex was a high earner.

And if you had listened to the majority of posters (including ones like myself who previously worked for CMS) and took proper advice before ploughing on, instead of listening to the tiny number of posters who were telling you what you wanted to hear, then this could have been resolved ages ago.

Even when child benefit sided with your ex you still wouldn't listen to anyone who wasn't saying what you wanted to hear.

You got greedy and you gave the information to get the result you wanted. Despite numerous opportunity you refused to back down. That has blown up in your face now and the only person to blame for that is you.

Gosh, are you saying that your money-driven and quixotic campaign have led to the destruction of your once amicable co-parenting relationship?

What an entirely predicted outcome.

...

It's clear to everyone but you that this was your fault. But let's say for the sake of argument that it wasn't.

You're the one who received money that wasn't owed to you. He is the one who had to pay money that he didn't owe. So you owe him the money back. The child support agency does not owe him the money back because they didn't receive the erroneously paid money, you did. So even if it was their fault you still owe the money back that you received that was not owed to you.

I’m sorry but

if he has them half the time he is entitled to one child’s child benefit higher earnings or not. You just seem money hungry and also neither should be taking maintenance off the other with it being weeek on week off. End of both should be providing clothes and shoes essentials etc and then obviously living expenses while in your own care. H

Just commenting to follow!

She absolutely is. He was paying her of his own volition, even though they have them 50/50. In fact, she admitted in one of her threads that he has them slightly more than she does. But because she fills out more paperwork than he does she thought that she should be considered the primary carer. She even admitted that the paperwork and doctors visits and things they each do on their time with the kids so it just worked out that she happened to do more.

She found out he was earning a lot more money than she thought he was and so she decided to take him for child support. But it turns out that it has bitten her in the ass just like everyone has told her that it would.

We all told you over and over that CMS will award on the basis of child benefit and on what you tell them. They don’t check. They rely on honesty.

You only got the child benefit because your ex allowed it as a goodwill gesture. It’s 50/50 care so should have been one each since 50/59 started. Your ex allowed you to keep both out of his goodwill. You weren’t actually entitled to both.

You then used the fact that you got the child benefit to claim maintenance. We all told you that CMS would award it because you got the child benefit, that’s how it works. Your ex put in his rival claim for CB because it was the only way to stop you. We told you that your ex would win his rival claim, and you didn’t believe us. Look what happened. He had to do that because CB is the proof that CMS use. He got that proof for himself so that’s how he got one child removed. It is 100% correct that they have backdated that removal to the day he was awarded the CB so that’s why it has been deducted from the payments for the remaining child on your claim.

He will now win the claim for the other child. You will have to pay him. If he chooses not to accept it then you are very very lucky.

But you need to stop saying CMS are at fault. They go solely on what you tell them and on the CB.

You were not entitled to both CB claims. You only had both because your ex allowed it out of goodwill. You abused that goodwill when you used the CB to claim child maintenance. It is not the CMS fault. You knew you only got CB because he let you, when you abused that, he took it from you. CMS only make a decision on CB so they said you were entitled to money because of that… but you knew you only had CB because your ex let you. So you knew you weren’t actually entitled to it, which leads onto you not being entitled to CM for at least one child. CMS didn’t know that.

This is all your own fault. You deserve everything that has happened.

Nobody lead you to believe you were entitled to anything. You lead yourself to believe that. We all told you that you weren’t going to get anything.

CMS needs to be clearer about 50/50 cases then. That you should only claim with the agreement of the other parent as they can then make rival child benefit claims, get the money repaid etc. clearly it’s a flaw in the system and CMS should be having more due diligence when it comes to 50/50 cases instead of basing it on child benefit and then questions about admin and registration.

CMS needs to be clearer about 50/50 cases then. That you should only claim with the agreement of the other parent as they can then make rival child benefit claims, get the money repaid etc. clearly it’s a flaw in the system and CMS should be having more due diligence when it comes to 50/50 cases instead of basing it on child benefit and then questions about admin and registration.

Do you ever take responsibility for anything?

You had a generous ex who paid you more than many men pay when not on CMS despite not having to pay a penny. You got greedy when he got a pay rise. It blew up in your face.

Grow up and accept that you're the only one to blame for all of this.

You were told repeatedly to get proper advice. To speak to CMS honestly. And yet you chose, repeatedly, to only listen to people who told you what you wanted to hear.

If you rang a government agency and explained your circumstances and they told you that you had a legitimate claim, you would believe them and claim the money too.

I don’t understand why people are solely blaming me when it was the CMS who allowed my claim, they even allowed me to take the money from his wages.

No, they don’t. CMS has many many flaws, but using CB as their starting point for the award isn’t one of them.

If you choose to lie, then that is your choice and your fault when it goes wrong.

You called them up and told them you were primary carer, you also told them you got both CBs. Thats how you evidenced it. But you knew that evidence was flawed because you weren’t actually entitled to both claims, it was goodwill from your ex.

You lied, or misrepresented the situation about why you got both CB. It came back to bite you.

You could have stopped at any time because we all spent a very long time warning you and telling you exactly what would happen. Look at your responses in the last thread; you ignored everything you were told and just kept repeating that it wasn’t fair and surely they wouldn’t award him as he earns too much. We told you he would win CB so you had to talk to him to try and undo the damage. You ignored us and carried on. We told you what would happen to CM if he won the CB, but you didn’t believe that either. So you carried on.

This isn’t CMS’s fault. The blame is fully on you. Even if you didn’t realise it all to begin with, we told you. You could have stopped it. Now it’s too late. You screwed yourself.

You told them you got CB for both because you were primary carer. They believed you, because that’s what’s CB means. But you also knew that you and your ex had 50/50 (and that he actually had them more and did all appointments and admin on his time) and you knew you only got CB for both because he allowed you to.

Then you used it as evidence in your claim. And it’s the only evidence CM need. We told you what would happen. All of it. You chose not to listen.

You misrepresented your situation to CMS. They took your word for it. That’s your fault.

Alright well we will have to agree to disagree then won’t we. I’ve always claimed both child benefits, my ex was never bothered about child benefit before. When I spoke to the CMS, they asked who claimed the child benefits (me) and who the kids were registered with and did more admin (me). They then awarded me the money. They didn’t say it was conditional on several factors and that my ex could contest it with child benefit and with them. The rival claim for child benefit came as a shock, I didn’t even know that was a thing and like I said, my ex had been happy for me to claim it for many, many years. The CMS does have some accountability here, they should never have allowed me to claim if it was conditional on all these factors that they never even told me about.