For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

In the ladies, baby boys will be looking at tits and fannies. Is that weird?

No, of course it isn't. This thread is moving into the hysterical and absurd to be honest.

Folks - the men's changing room was likely virtually empty while the women's crowded (adult swimming had started, women's aerobics just finished). If this happened like the op said, the little girl would have been perfectly safe in a cubicle in the men's changing room with her dad. No man, especially one with a daughter of his own, would think having a child with him entitled him to free access to the women's changing room. So he was either a predatory weirdo, a dick or this didn't happen. Take your pick.

But that's not really the issue. It isn't fair to expect a load of women to get changed in front of a 10-year-old boy in a communal changing space. I didn't blame him, he looked so embarrassed. But it was really uncomfortable. His needs - and his mum's anxiety, legitimate or not - are not more important.

It is genuinely worrying how mad some of these responses are.

my kids saw other men’s penises (and bums, biceps, ears) every week from approx birth until age 8 - my youngest even later as she’s little so got away with it for longer. She’s not damaged or scarred. I think it’s far more worrying if a child grows up thinking male body parts are inherently wrong, dangerous or to be feared.

I once had to gently tell a mum that her 10 ish year old was staring at the ladies as they were changing. If made me feel uncomfortable so I told her. She was mortified. The child was in the men’s from then on and rightly so.

common sense will tell you when a child should no longer be in opposite sex changing rooms.

Yeah. My ten year old daughter nearly died when a boy in her class walked into the girls’ changing room the other day. Absolutely not ok.

I’m not without sympathy to the boy mums who don’t want to send them into the men’s. But this is not my daughter’s problem to solve.

No I don’t think it’s ok but also I don’t think it’s a reason for a man to enter a woman’s changing room. I have sons and always managed to find ways to cope without them or me being in places we were not permitted to go.

He was a guest in the hotel and could have just taken her back to his room. As an adult woman this is what I do if swimming in a hotel pool where I’m a guest. Pretty easy

YANBU for not wanting a man in a woman's Space but yabu for expecting a girl to go into a man's Space. This is on the gym and there should be family changing rooms.
Woman have every reason for not wanting there bodies being on display in changing areas in front of men but children also deserve the same respect and safety.
For the first 12 years of my son's life I was a single parent and there is no way on earth that I would have sent him into a man's toilet/changing room alone. I remember reading a story when he was little about a boy who was sexually assaulted in a McDonald's toilets.
It really is inexcusable in this day and age that gyms/cinemas/restaurants don't have family facilities. You can't expect people to put their children at risk in these situations.

@ruethewhirl No, not a threat. But are you really saying you think it's just fine and dandy for a little girl of 4/5 to have to look at strangers' penises? Blimey.

Yes, I am! Where's the harm? You say you yourself would have found it distressing, but that can only be because some kind of taboo was installed in you by your parents at an even younger age ("don't look! it's nasty!"). Kids aren't born frightened of other people's bodies.

I think this whole thing is doing a huge disservice to men to assume they can't be respectful around a small child in their midst and the idea they will be deliberately showing their bits off to the child.
I would imagine most men would feel uncomfortable doing so and would change themselves accordingly. Obviously there are some predatory men around but let's not decide that this kind of thing applies to all men all of the time.

I think this whole thing is doing a huge disservice to men to assume they can't be respectful around a small child in their midst and the idea they will be deliberately showing their bits off to the child.
I would imagine most men would feel uncomfortable doing so and would change themselves accordingly. Obviously there are some predatory men around but let's not decide that this kind of thing applies to all men all of the time.

@Orangesinthebag
The problem is that people don't walk around with the word pedophile/rapist tattooed on there forehead. Women shouldn't have to put in dangerous with men in their changing rooms but children deserve the same safety rights.
There should be separate family facilities.

It is not ok for a 9-10-11 yo girl about to start puberty to have to change in front of him though.

Yes but those family changing facilitied don't always exist as is the case here.

Obviously I know predatory men don't walk around with a sign "tattoed on their forehead" but thanks for the patronising insight there.

I just think this whole situation is being totally overblown and people are coming out with some quite bizarre and OTT comments.

I just think this whole situation is being totally overblown and people are coming out with some quite bizarre and OTT comments.

@Orangesinthebag
I don't think safeguarding women and children is over the top.
Like I said up post, swimming pools and what not should legally have to provide a safe environment that customers can use to get changed.

But you’re not arguing for the safeguarding women’s rights, you’re arguing that women are at risk from ALL men by virtue of us not knowing which are the predators. Which is patently untrue. Which means organising one’s life around that premise is nuts.

Of course the little girl would have been safe, it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest she wouldn't have been.
Whether it's ideal or not is another matter.

I doubt the dad was a predator or a weirdo, he was certainly an entitled dick, and thankfully the OP spoke out.

I think this sums the position up beautifully.

When I wrote family facilities i meant pools and gyms that accept children or have family time.
Not necessarily family changing facilities.

The OP mentioned at least 5 cubicles in her original post. I swim weekly up and down the country, never been in any changing room without cubicles if you wish to use them.

I disagree on whether the father was a weirdo or a predator. Any man who believes it is acceptable to use the women's changing rooms is predatory. By that, I don't mean he will necessarily rape/assault a woman, but not caring how uncomfortable he is making women feel is, in my mind, predatory. No decent man would consider it acceptable to use the women's changing rooms.

More likely to be an entitled idiot than a predator. The word ‘predator’ has a couple of very specific meanings such that, absent a predatory intention, there is no predation.

he was much more likely to be a total and entitled dick. I’ve met many of them - both male and female - in family friendly hotels.

It’s based on statistics and biology.
It’s called safeguarding.

Do you think teachers shouldn’t have DBS checks before they’re allowed to work with children because it works on the assumption that all teachers could be predators?

You replied to me stating that parents should act responsibly and ensure facilities meet their requirements. If you’re a parent of a child of the opposite sex and you do not feel comfortable with them using male/ female changing facilities then you need to contact the place and ask if they have family changing rooms and if they do not, it is YOUR responsibility, as a parent, to make alternative arrangements (towel and tracksuit at the side of the pool/ change back in the hotel room) or to decide to not go.

Because performative parading in gym changing rooms. Let's not pretend that's not a thing.