For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

I can sense a dangerous situation when I’m in one. Only it happens extraordinarily rarely because the vast majority of people are perfectly normal and nice.

An ‘all men are predators’ approach does nothing for the feminist cause and doesn’t keep people safe. It just makes people unreasonably frightened and paranoid and stops them living a free life that real feminists would want.

Fear and hatred rarely fuel good things. Those emotions are responsible for wars and genocide. Once people step away, and see the grey from amongst the black and white, good things happen.

You’ve obviously had some bad experiences and I’m sorry about that. But assuming all men are sexual predators is not the way to salve those injuries.

@MyPearlCrow

An ‘all men are predators’ approach does nothing for the feminist cause and doesn’t keep people safe. It just makes people unreasonably frightened and paranoid and stops them living a free life that real feminists would want.

Could be. Could be predators. And are statistically much more likely to be than a woman is. This risk level is reflected by safeguarding measures. I think few people think 'all men are predators' but many (sensibly in my opinion) think too many of them are, and we can't tell which ones.

You’ve obviously had some bad experiences and I’m sorry about that. But assuming all men are sexual predators is not the way to salve those injuries.

Could be. Assuming they could be.

Not all men, I completely agree, but we can't tell which ones are or aren't.

This is so weird! So the mere presence of an unclothed penis is now a threat? Even though it's present in a room specifically intended for men to take their clothes off and put on their swimming costumes?

As I said up thread, bodies are bodies, we've all got them ... they're not evil in and of themselves. You can find them distasteful, sure, but a young child doesn't yet have the preconceptions necessary to make that distinction, and I don't think it's wise to force them on a kid anyway.

As a PP said, the best thing would be for the dad to take the DD into the men's, keep her safe there, and if she does get a glimpse of a man without his pants on, just tell her bodies come in all shapes and sizes. It will help her develop a healthy attitude towards her own body, growing up.

What a sad way to live.

A father needs to take a child that age in the mens.

Just as mothers take little boys in the womens.

At about age 7/8 i would say it might be better to send her in the women's by herself.

But if the men’s changing rooms are unsafe for children, potentially full of predators etc then why would it be safe for a little boy to go in there?

Why is it daft?

That’s where you act like a responsible parent and find out if the facilities meet your requirements before going.

Totally agree 8 seems very young to be sending boys into the men's alone.
I don't mind it too much when it's swimming lessons only and only boys getting changed but I'm not comfortable with it in other times.

TBH I'll flaunt the rules a bit longer I'm convinced they say 8 because they know people will say their kid's a year or 2 younger than they actually are, so if you say 8 by 10 they'll be in the correct space, if you say 10 you'd be guaranteed to have 12 yos still with mum.

It absolutely cracks me up that their is a thread where 2/3 of posters wouldn't leave a 7yo outside the school gates for a few minutes, yet mums of 8yo boys are expected to send boys into the men's alone.

That's just a cope out answer.

Children including boys should be able to use family facilities without fear.

"so I'd understand if a Dad brought her to the ladies"

Wrong on every level.

Disability issue aside (don't use disabled facilities), it's also uncomfortable for adult females to have a 10-year-old child stood there while they're getting undressed. I know this because I've been in this situation. It's really inappropriate. I felt uncomfortable being naked while a clearly awkward pre-teen - around 10, possibly older - stood there.

I get it's uncomfortable but really a 8 or 9 yo boy with their mum poses no risk to females.
But they could be very vulnerable going into the men's alone.

And that's the problem for this age group.

They don't want to change together. Its unreasonable to expect them to want them to change together. But the alternative isn't suitable either.

I can sense a dangerous situation when I’m in one.

The OP sensed an inappropriate situation and spoke up. Why are there women berating her because NAMALT?

Obviously it’s not all men, but it’s still men, and like I said earlier they don’t come with a handy sign on their heads.

Why on earth any woman would accept a man going into female only spaces is beyond me. I can only assume that they’ve been very lucky in life, and that they haven’t read the stats about sexual assault in mixed sex changing rooms.

You keep insisting on making this about sex when that's not where I'm coming from at all. My argument is that it's not very pleasant to be stared at by anyone, of either sex or any age, while naked. Nothing to do with sex. Hope that clears things up for you.

It doesn’t actually. The comment you originally commented on was in relation to someone being uncomfortable with a 4 year old boy in the changing room. I asked what would a 4 year old do that was threatening and you said they stare. So do you think all children should be barred from changing rooms just in case they stare then? Your comments are all over the place and don’t make sense.

And if there aren’t “family facilities”..?

You bet? A complete stranger you don't even know with his daughter and you bet he's going to stay and rape the last woman there rather than betting on the much more likely scenario he was looking for somewhere to change his daughter? Do you hear how insane that sounds? There's protecting single sex spaces and then there's some of you that sound like you have constant rape and sexual assault scenarios in your head you need to get checked out, it's not normal.

Because it’s based on fear, assumption and hyperbole which rarely results in common sense decisions.

Sorry my last comment was linked to this.

The point here is that this 4 year old is with their father. The father is there to protect/shield the child from a predatory adult.

I do understand people worry about younger boys when they first go in the mens alone. You can always just tell a child to change in the loos where there are cubicles. Worst case, you can take a child already in swim wear, with a onesie on top, and have them take it off pool side.

If you are really bothered about changing just use the towel to take the worst of the wetness from shorts at the end and put the onesie back on. A short journey home in damp shorts never killed anyone.

No, not a threat. But are you really saying you think it's just fine and dandy for a little girl of 4/5 to have to look at strangers' penises? Blimey.

All I can say is that if that had happened to me aged 4/5 I'd have found it really unsettling. I think some on the thread might be underestimating how disconcerting it really could be for a little girl to have to witness a load of strange men strolling around with their dicks swinging especially if they have never seen one before (given that not all families do nudity at home) and don't even know what they are.

I don't think it's necessarily that the man with the daughter is going to be predatory in the women's changing room, it's that his presence is uncessary and will make other women and girls feel uncomfortable.

He should just take his small child into the men's changing rooms with him and safeguard her while they both quickly get changed. And the people who seem to think other men will be dangling their bits in her face rather than just quickly going about the business of getting themselves changed are just being a bit odd in my opinion.

I think swimming pool changing rooms are different to perhaps a gym or a sauna, they're generally pretty basic, damp and cold so everyone just gets on with getting dry and getting out of there.

But is this actually happening in men's swimming pool changing rooms?

Why would they all be wandering around like this and not just getting dry, getting changed and getting out of there?