For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

It's not a gym, it's a swimming pool changing room which I think is a different thing as I said earlier. I

I think gyms and sauna changing rooms are different to swimming pool changing rooms.

But even so it's the parents job to safeguard the child and get them changed as quickly and privately as possible.
It didn't seem a huge problem when my daughters were young & their dad regularly took them swimming. I wasn't in there but I assumed and trusted that he kept them safe, used a cubicle if possible etc. He never expressed having a problem and they have continued swimming themselves and don't seem scarred by their experiences on a men's changing room when they were small.

Actually, before saying that they stare I said It's not about doing anything 'threatening'.

Thereby, I would have thought, making it crystal clear that I wasn't claiming it was threatening, simply unpleasant. So there's no need for me to answer your goady question because it's irrelevant.

DBS checking people who work with children is a completely separate issue to the argument being promulgated here that all men are potential rapists/predators. DBS checks are undertaken on both men and women.

Having a penis does not make someone a predator, just as the absence of one doesn’t necessarily make a person ‘safe’.

I think there must be some miscommunication and we aren’t understanding each other at this point because you still aren’t making sense to me. I wasn’t trying to be goady I was just looking for reasons why someone wouldn’t want a 4 year old male in a changing room and you were the only person who replied and I was challenging the reply “they stare”. I’m not trying to offend you. Apologies if it came across that way.

Assuming you don't want teachers DBS checked is a great example of the fear and assumption and hyperbole though

Have you seen your average women’s changing room at a gym? A lady at our gym always dries her hair naked and there are fake tits out everywhere with quite a lot of prancing. And kids literally everywhere too. Boy kids as well! I don’t think they notice, they are too busy arguing about putting their pants on before eating their wotsits.

98% of sex crimes are committed by males. It is on the basis of this fact, plus the indisputable physical advantage males have over females, that we have separate changing spaces etc.

This is the same as children being vulnerable to adults.

It’s the very basis of all safeguarding measures. One group is vulnerable to another group so policies are put in place in order to reduce that risk.

deleted as ironically misread.

Well statistically women and girls are most likely to be abused by people known to them and not some random man taking his daughter swimming. Are you claiming PP has statistics on their side to 'bet' this man was only there swimming with his daughter under the pretence of accessing the female changing area and waiting to rape the woman who was last to change? Because that's what you're replying to..

That stat may be correct but you are talking as if 98 per cent of men are sex pests. Only that would justify such a dramatic overreaction.

“Well statistically women and girls are most likely to be abused by people known to them”

yes because of increased opportunity.

The solution is not to increase the opportunity by allowing males to enter women’s spaces.

Are 98% of teachers child abusers?

If not, we don’t need them to have DBS checks, right?

@MyPearlCrow @Brokenrecordroundround

I get it. There will always be people who are uncomfortable in prioritising women’s safety over male feelings. It’s how we’ve been socialised for the last millennia.

Yeah but if we're going to reduce all logic to statistics then all the PP who were concerned about the young girl changing in the men's were right then because she's statistically more likely to be abused by men and by a man known to her so all the "her dad would be there to keep her safe" reasoning wouldn't add up either. Or we could just approach things with common sense and not immediately jump to imaginary rape scenarios being almost definitely being planned by a dad with his daughter and instead assume he did a daft thing while not wanting to take his daughter into the men's.

Rape isn’t imaginary

This thread is ridiculous.. women have the right to a safe space but little children can just cross their fingers and hope there isn't a nonce in the men's changing rooms.

I'd actually argue that protecting your child from a peadophile is more important than anything else. So if it's a choice between safeguarding a child and women being uncomfortable, it's more important to safeguard a child.

But also fair enough to say that you should take your child to a place with family changing rooms to avoid having that dilemma in the first place. I never really go to a pool without my husband so it isn't an issue for us with an 8 year old son.

Thats not a scene i recognise, but then I'm not looking closely enough at the breasts to determine their origins

That's such a false equivalence. The option to just not swim at that pool is right there.

The PP original comment was that this man didn't succeed to rape "this time" but they bet he definitely planned to. Based on absolutely nothing. That's imaginary and it's abnormal to constantly imagine rape and sexual assault scenarios. I find it creepy how many posters online type out detailed made up "possible" sexual assaults when talking about protecting single sex spaces, it's not normal. As a sexual assault survivor I don't need you to tell me rape isn't imaginary and I also don't need to see posters make up and type rape scenarios to generate fear.

So you think males should be allowed to enter women’s spaces?

I do think we're at cross-purposes, but no worries, and I wasn't trying to be goady either. 🙂

Those people that are saying a man should change his daughter in the ladies, do you think women should take their small sons into the mens to change them?

Where did I say that? You make an awful lot of assumptions 🤨 I have no issue with single sex spaces, however they aren't perfect obviously an people need to use their common sense when it comes to boys and cleaners for example as this thread shows people have all different opinions on male children in female changing rooms. You sound desperate to accuse people of not caring about women or their safety if they object to posters making up detailed malicious intent on the part of this Dad.

I have only seen one or two posts in this whole thread of 800 plus posts, where it's been suggested that men should ever enter women's changing rooms, and that's if they have a young female child with them.

And yes, teachers should be DBS checked, both men and women.The check is not only for sexual offences, it's to check on all their previous criminal history, if any.