To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

He is still male regardless of what his passport says because he was born a boy
every bit of his being due to his chromosomes is male - every cell and every bit of his DNA
he can change his outward appearance
but women aren’t penis-less men
or humans in dresses

@rubyslippers i agree but he has managed to get this passport and I’m just amazed at how it’s been done?! Would I need to just apply and say I’m male or do you have to show some sort of evidence?!

They just need a letter from a doctor saying their gender change is likely to be permanent.

In some countries, you can have a passport with your choice of sex on it.

I don't think a passport should have your sex on it. You're not legally blond or brown eyed. I think sex is the same in this case.

They have to be "living as a woman" so basically wear a dress, change your name, there's your new passport. He will be able to get a new birth certificate saying he is female too. It's fucked up.

And under the Olympic rules, he can now compete in women’s boxing.

I’m amazed by these replies! Thanks for educating me. I’m quite shocked by it. DH’s friend is very nice and he’s clearly much happier now he’s dressing as a woman etc but despite looking feminine in some ways, he’s a huge 6ft plus size!

If him being trans doesn’t bother you at all, if you’re fine with it, why are you so bothered by his passport. It’s not your circus, is it you don’t need to know or need an explanation.

@stargazerlil because it seems absurd to me that someone can have an official document with an incorrect detail on it?!

He'll enjoy doing that.

Its two years and you have to convince a medical panel that you ve been living as a woman - UK.
Almost everyone who applies, gets a GRC, and if they want, a passport, driving licence & a new birth certificate, all in your new gender.

This has been the situation for many years, i believe the Tories expanded the number of Gender Recognition Clinics and reduced the fee to just £5 a few years ago.

However, who cares? the 99.9% of violence against women is done by men, without a GRC.

& new rules on sport, will ensure no TW can compete in female sport.

Again, not your circus.

@Brla The books Trans by Helen Joyce is really worth a read.
It may well be your DHs friend is a lovely happier person now he has assumed the costume of a woman. But why hasn’t he removed his penis? Women don’t have a penis.
If he is really a women ( which in my and scientific opinion he can never be) who does he still have a penis?

@stargazerlil as a woman I think it is my circus.

If he's in the transport police he will be allowed to strip search women, without having to tell them he's a man.

If he works in a hospital he will be able to perform intimate examinations on women, even if they have specified they can only be in the presence of women.

If he has a gender recognition certificate then for legal purposes he is seen as a woman. It's a legal fiction.

UK government information here:
https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate

I care
What does living as a woman mean?!
you earn less than a man

woman is not a feeling

if we change the meaning of words, then what?

@Candlesandmatches i don’t actually know why… I suppose he may have done but not made it public knowledge. Dh isn’t aware either way.

This book and material girls radicalised me in this subject

Incorrect, you don't need a GRC to get a passport which says whatever sex you choose it to. Some individual is currently suing the UK government to let him have a passport which says he's 'non-binary'.

It's a shit show.

@hagchic but surely in a hospital you could just ask for someone else to do it if you felt uncomfortable?

In the UK you don't need to get a gender reassignment certificate to change your passport or driving bg license. You just need a supporting letter from your doctor.

In order to change your birth certificate to the opposite sex you do need a gender reassignment certificate. You get that by living as the opposite gender for 2 years and a diagnosis from your doctor.

In Scotland they plan to do self id so you can get the GRC and change the sex on your birth certificate without needing to live in your gender for any period or get a doctors support.

No trans person has to undergo surgery or hormone therapy at any point, they are dangerous so the gov cannot insist people do them.

And risk being accused of transphobia?

You could ask, but if you explained why you may well be considered transphobic and discriminatory and told 'they are a woman'.

You could also simply not know - you say he has had facial feminisation surgery so it may not be obvious - has he had his Adam's apple shaved?

If you're in that position are you going to ask someone who looks androgynous "Are you really a woman?"

Oh, yes, @Brla I second this 🙏Read Ms Joyce!