To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Also add why Lostcat denies the experience of those who say they have a “lady brain”. We aren’t to believe those people either. Why is that Lostcat?

”Believe what trans people say about themselves, except when their logic goes against my arguments.”

Being trans is not a conscious choice. The fact that you think it is because you’ve watched some YouTube videos or read twitter or something is not worthy of respect.

Ok, then explain why I’m wrong. Shouldn’t be hard. How is it not

• an ideology
• sexist
• misogynistic
• homophobic?

For someone with your convictions it should be easy to state how it’s not these things. Go for it.

This is an ad hom attack and it is another false generalisation

no, it’s just the truth of the matter.

And yet there are transpeople who say that they have consciously chosen to be trans. Are you saying those aren't real transpeople? Who are you to decide that?

I have repeatedly explained why it’s not an ideology.

The other accusations are made up and have no basis in anything but prejudice. Theres no more sense in me trying to refute them than if someone came along and said trans people were aliens . How am I suppose to refute that other than by explaining what being trans is (as I have done) which has nothing to do with aliens

How do you know all this, Lostcat?

You say it is not a concious choice but you your self are not trans.
You also know that all trans people just know from childhood they are the opposite sex than what they are.
You also know that transwomen know what it means to be born female.

How do you know what other people think or feel? I am sorry but I think the word 'knowing' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

if you are going to continue to insist that being trans is a choice then there’s not much else I can say on that.
Im sorry that you believe this ,
because it is not a position worthy of respect and it promotes harm and misunderstanding

It is possible to believe those things and not ‘have an issue with trans people’. I believe that Not bad and others have tried to point out to you that it is entirely possible to understand that the philosophy and the systemic beliefs have major foundational issues, therefore on a collective level, while engaging at a personal level.

You seem to be one of the people who use this if a person doesn’t ‘believe’ in what you believe that person must ‘hate’ the people who do believe. This really is absolutist thinking. And it is a catastrophising cognitive distortion tactic.

Ok I’ll give you a lead in then to refute:

Men making society redefine “woman” to include him is misogyny. It’s a hatred of women played out as telling women to be what men say.

Men claiming they are women based on certain clothes, make up, mannerisms etc is sexism. It’s defining woman by sexist stereotypes.

Men who are opposite sex attracted who then claim to be women, and hence claim to be lesbians as a result, is homophobia. It’s the ‘I’m as lesbian trapped in a man’s body” trope.

So explain how these things are not true.

Only in your opinion.

I'm not insisting it, some transpeople are. I'm on the way rn work so here's a quick example:

https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/27/ben-zand-didnt-want-offend-documentary-transmaxxing-20337465/

Because I am educated on the subject; the same way I know that being gay is not a conscious choice.
well I suppose for some gay people they do feel that being gay is a choice, but for the most part it’s recognised to be something that a person is , that they just can’t do much about. Not a lifestyle, not something they chose to be, something that they are.
It was important in tackling homophobia and securing rights and equality for gay people to ensure people understood this,

@lostcat, to again try and build bridges here,

The reason many women here feel the ideas about being transgender is sexist is that it dismisses what it actually means to be female, the way growing up biologically female impacts your life. No male person can ever have that lived experience and the way transactivists, and you as well, ignore womens voices in this, is very sexist.

Homophobic, that comes from the push that transwomen demand to be included in the lesbian dating pool, even when lesbians have said they aren't interested. Lesbians have been called sexual racists for not seeing transwomen as women.

Misgoynistic, it does seem that many transwomen do not like women and certainly do not respect them. Why else belittle women when they don't want to share female facilities with them? Transwomen have a choice here, to respect single sex spaces and find alternatives for themselves. They don't, often citing that this invalidates their self image, but it only widens the gap of acceptance and in the long run will backfire.

So can you see where these comments are coming from?

Because I am educated on the subject; the same way I know that being gay is not a conscious choice.

Being gay is totally different to being trans, so why is that any basis for your 'educated' state?

Also, my cousins child who thought she was trans and the concluded she wasn't. How does that situation fit into your world view?

Her 'knowing' was false? Her status changed?

Transmaxxing is an incel movement and has nothing to do with people who are actually transgender.

Oh dear.

Actually we discussed the issue with the person directly. You know, we ‘listened’ to them. Like you have tried repeatedly to tell us we don’t do and that we should be doing.

I will repeat this question because the hypocrisy of your posts has increased the importance of knowing this answer.

Can you start telling us what makes you an expert in this field that you can speak on behalf of transgender people please?

Because at this point it seems that you have been all along trying to ‘educate’ people based on only your own interpretation of what having a transgender identity means.

I said very early in this thread that you seem rather misinformed or not up to date. And it has become more and more apparent as the thread has progressed.

The reason many women here feel the ideas about being transgender is sexist is that it dismisses what it actually means to be female, the way growing up biologically female impacts your life. No male person can ever have that lived experience and the way transactivists, and you as well, ignore womens voices in this, is very sexist.

why do you think it does this at all? Why do you think I do this? I don’t. I’m a woman and a feminist.

Lostcat · Today 00:27

I would not call this discrimination, and don’t feel the least bit sorry for these individuals .

Fortunately for the real world, the appeal found otherwise and the judges admonished the biased activist judge from the lower tribunal, who'd misapplied the law on which he based his corrupt decision.

Also fortunately, even though you think it's not bullying, harassment and discrimination, sensible grown ups, who understand the law, do and have ruled against those who carried out prolonged acts of bullying, harassment and discrimination against a number of women and awarded damages in every case.

It's telling that you think that they were not bullied, harassed and illegally discriminated against and that they deserved to have been put through years of Hell, in various attempts to silence them from expressing views, which have been judged as worthy of respect in a democratic society.

What of Mridul Wadhwa? Do you think that he was right to sit in on rape counselling sessions, though he doesn't even have the most basic qualification and to have asked women who'd been raped if they'd orgasmed - simply because he chooses to wear a sari?

why do you think it does this at all? Why do you think k I do this? I don’t. I’m a woman and a feminist.

Youre not a feminist. A feminist doesn't prioritise men's desires over women's material reality.

The argument that being trans and being gay is the same is not true and it does feel a lot like forced teaming as most people don't have any issue with people who are gay.

Being gay is all about yourself and the romantic relationships you have with others.

Being trans is all about the way the world views you which needs to be aligned with the way you feel about yourself. Issue is you can't force the way others see you but by comparing it to being gay, the goal is to paint it like it doesn't impact you and to trigger a feeling of shame in the other. But it does impact others and women shouldn't feel shame when they won't be forced.

Homophobic, that comes from the push that transwomen demand to be included in the lesbian dating pool, even when lesbians have said they aren't interested. Lesbians have been called sexual racists for not seeing transwomen as women.

what is the “lesbian dating pool” please?

Misgoynistic, it does seem that many transwomen do not like women and certainly do not respect them.

Why do you believe this?

sensible grown ups

Ah I see.

Are you going to answer this Lostcat?

Ok I’ll give you a lead in then to refute:

Men making society redefine “woman” to include him is misogyny. It’s a hatred of women played out as telling women to be what men say.

Men claiming they are women based on certain clothes, make up, mannerisms etc is sexism. It’s defining woman by sexist stereotypes.

Men who are opposite sex attracted who then claim to be women, and hence claim to be lesbians as a result, is homophobia. It’s the ‘I’m as lesbian trapped in a man’s body” trope.

Can you explain how these things are not true, given you’re utterly convinced they’re not? It should be easy.